A Turk's eloquent call for Genocide recognition

[winoman]

Mr winoman, attacking you was not my intention. What Altan wrote was nice but i just dont belive he is sincere.

I meant that you are attacking him and questionaing his intentions - as other Turks do with Ackam and Berktay etc - and not listenign to his message and attempting to process and make some sense of it. What he is saying seems pretty clear to me and it is quite and indictment that Turks - such as yourself - are reacting in just the way he predicts and in just the unfeeling manner that concerns him. I have no idea about your contention of inscenserity - though I doubt it - what motivation or payoff is he recieving? It seems that he is atttempting to speak some truth and with his heart. I can see no fault at all in that and I can see no room to bash him on what he is saying (though from an Armenian perspective he seems to be avoiding the "G" word per se - but from my perspective he is commenting not politcally per se - but emotionally - attempting to feel and understand Armenian pain and frustration....

[Otto]

You are right about that too. Sincere or not what he wrote was more important than who he is. We got that bad habit and thats hard to change.

[bell-the-cat]

when do i get my red star? 100 posts?

Or maybe it's 150. ???

You have to do 500 to get two stars

[bell-the-cat]

. I can see no fault at all in that and I can see no room to bash him on what he is saying (though from an Armenian perspective he seems to be avoiding the "G" word per se - but from my perspective he is commenting not politcally per se - but emotionally - attempting to feel and understand Armenian pain and frustration....

He was not avoiding the "G" word - he was saying that it had no importance. Which is why his article had no particular importance.

[winoman]

He was not avoiding the "G" word - he was saying that it had no importance. Which is why his article had no particular importance.

The intrepretation of one who has not true emotions, empathy or feelings (certainly outside pity for oneself...) and who approaches this issues stricly from an analytical perspective (and a petty and bitter one at that) - with no real care or vested interest...of course I shouldn't be surprised that you cannot understand his underlying message (and eloquent and appropriate indicment of the Turks)....the word Genocide was immaterial to his point of having/showing empathy and understanding versus going into rabid defensive attack mode...big changes are sometimes made by first taking the smallest steps - if one never takes those first steps its highly doubtful that they will ever take that big leap...Turks obviously need to change their entire mindset - their perspective concerning this whole period and cast off all sorts of negativity and predjudices they have concerning Armenains and begin to look at the tragedy for what it was. Once they can do this - accepting the term Genocide for what occured really won't be all so difficult.

[bell-the-cat]

The intrepretation of one who has not true emotions, empathy or feelings (certainly outside pity for oneself...) and who approaches this issues stricly from an analytical perspective (and a petty and bitter one at that) - with no real care or vested interest...of course I shouldn't be surprised that you cannot understand his underlying message (and eloquent and appropriate indicment of the Turks)....the word Genocide was immaterial to his point of having/showing empathy and understanding versus going into rabid defensive attack mode...big changes are sometimes made by first taking the smallest steps - if one never takes those first steps its highly doubtful that they will ever take that big leap...Turks obviously need to change their entire mindset - their perspective concerning this whole period and cast off all sorts of negativity and predjudices they have concerning Armenains and begin to look at the tragedy for what it was. Once they can do this - accepting the term Genocide for what occured really won't be all so difficult.

You have reached a new low in acting pathetic.

The Armenian Genocide did not occur because Turks didn't "have/show empathy and understanding". In fact, I seem to recall that one CUP leader's speach said that Turks should ignore their "empathy and understanding" for their victims, and kill them anyway for the greater good of the nation. (Or maybe that was some WW2 Fascist). Whatever - having or not having "empathy and understanding" for the individual victims is irelevant to having the mindset to commit genocide. And having or not having "empathy and understanding" for individuals is irelevant to preventing genocide being committed in the future. Armenians were killed not because they were individuals, but because they were members of a group that the more powerful Turkish/Kurdish/Muslin society decided should be exterminated.

If Turkey today were some ultra-violent society with out-of-control street crime and political violence then encouraging a sense of "empathy and understanding" would have some validity. But Turkey is, generally, not such a violent society.

Look outside your own window if you want to see a county where human life considered so worthless and people have so little empathy and understanding of each other that they will kill you for your watch, or trainers, or because they think you've look at them in the wrong way. And if you want to see a person with not a shred of empathy for anyone but themselves, and who thinks of nothing but their own vested interest, then look in a mirror.

[winoman]

Again you obviously just are incapable of understanding Altan's points or mine - though I'm not surprised.

[Otto]

Mr winoman i know it is not related to subject but you wont believe this.I saw an advertisement about Turkish airforce recruiting program and they were playin one of the Darth Vader's themes on the background.

[Fadix2]

The number of Turkish troops he claims he "led" increases with each of his three books!

Nor did he volunteer, he did it for the money. And he wrote the "4 years" book for the money as well. And also to whitewash his own involvement in the genocide. That book, and the other two by Nogales contain much useful incidental detail on the Genocide, but they should not be considered eyewitness accounts.

I entirly agree with you here...

Nogales was a pied mercenary, a psychopath... if everything he wrote in his books were true, this men is trully sick in his head.

Do you know what was the reaction of his home country when he wanted to return in his hometown? They've never have forgotten what the moron did in Van, cannonating entire buildings to the ground, while he was watching and savourating every scenes...

When one start having disgust of him, they turn pages, and find out Armenian men emptying their guns from the precious bullets on an elderly women, while they were encircled by Nogales so-called "army," shouting at them... something that a psychiatrist will conclude fiction.

Isen't it amazing that in every corners he was, he always was right on the scene, and it was not him and his men that did anything?

Who afterall would bother going in all this trouble(as he explain) to get in an army regardless of the nation, unless the men is a psychopat hungry of war and deaths, ready in the "tranches" battles of World War I as a mercenary, and this regardless of how much one is pied?

[Fadix2]

The book was written to whitewash his reputation

Can't agree more.