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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sip
    If this is false genocide, why Turkey don't take Armenians to court?
    Sip you killed my father, will you take me court?

    Comment

    • #32
      A reliable source has informed me that Germany payed to the Jews because it chose to pay. Would Turkey choose to pay to the Armenians?

      If the Armenian Genocide is recognized by Turkey and reparations are payed to Armenians, others such as the Greeks and Assyrians will also want to get a piece of the pie. It wouldn't be fair if they (especially the Assyrians) are ignored in all this.

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by Murtaza
        Sip you killed my father, will you take me court?
        Exactly! Why would I? Heck if I had the power, I would make talking about, or even mentioning, your father a crime punishable by imprisonment or worse.
        this post = teh win.

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by loseyourname
          Extend that to its logical end. Can we really give all land back to its original inhabitants? What would that accomplish?
          Justice, right? I believe the memory of one's native land and their ancestors is within each and every individual's genes.

          You'd be displacing people that did nothing wrong simply because their forefathers did.
          So, OK, let some guy come into your house, kill you and all of your family except for one child. Then say that the killer takes the house, keeps it forever and passes it on to his heirs who had no part in the original crim. So, your child has NO rights to that house. Do I understand you correctly?

          What if we uprooted everyone in North and South America other than descendants of natives and sent them back to Europe? Would that really be fair? Where would all of you Diaspora Armenians go?
          I've got no problem with that. Consider me a total supporter of Native American rights and should a local group of Native Americans demonstrate for their land/property rights, I would join right in. This country would probably be much better off under the conrol of its original owners. Let them decide who stays and who goes.
          Last edited by UFraidees; 08-02-2005, 12:13 PM.
          A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero dies but once

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          • #35
            Originally posted by loseyourname
            Extend that to its logical end. Can we really give all land back to its original inhabitants? What would that accomplish? You'd be displacing people that did nothing wrong simply because their forefathers did. What if we uprooted everyone in North and South America other than descendants of natives and sent them back to Europe? Would that really be fair? Where would all of you Diaspora Armenians go?
            Ok so where do you draw the line? Listen man, this isn't something totally new that we have never been confronted with. Look at how the Jews are entitled to all kinds of reperations and compensation for anything and everything. They even get paid for the slave labor and artwork returned. Imagine if those lands they lived on were ancestral Jewish lands? Yea, they would have got every square inch back. I'm not saying they would all get kicked out, but I don't think that they should be allowed to live in a house that someone else righfully owns. Supposing there were still people alive who owned those houses and had built them with thier own hands. You would tell them that the children of the murdering Turks are living there and they can't have their house back? There are homes in so-called Turkey right now occupied by Turks or Kurds and maybe even some Jews. Two of those homes used to belong to my grandparents and they would have been passed down to me and my brothers and sisters. Im the one who is displaced and you're asking me to be considerate to the children of those who killed my grandparents etc? And I would like to ask why Germans that did nothing wrong and weren't even alive during WWI have to pay for something they didn't do? Is it fair? Well it seems that it is fair and the citizens of the country that commited the crime have to pay for their countries crime.

            Look, sometimes you have to use some logic before making a statement and take all things into consideration instead of oversimplifyings things just to make things easy or for the sake of expediency. Let's take North America for example. In my opinion, I think that the Native Americans should at the very least be given title and ownership of all the lands that belong to them by treaty that were not honored and if there are any white people that live there (if they decide to stay rather than move to US owned territory) should be paying their taxes to the Native Americans and not to the US government, plus all the natural resources on all those lands would belong to the Native Americans. I think that is very fair. I live in North America and I have never felt that this is my land and I have always felt that it belongs to Native Americans and I am only a guest. In the same way, the Treaty of Sevres should be respected and the outlined territory should be handed over to the Armenians. The Turks would still have plenty of land and they can relocate if they wish or they could stay and pay their taxes to the righful owners of that land etc and I think that's more than fair. However, Turkey will have to pay reperations/compensation to the Armenians and there's no two ways about that. With the reperations, Armenians can recbuild their country and people would be flocking there instead of leaving because there is no future in a tiny land locked country with no prospect of any real future.

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by Dave
              A reliable source has informed me that Germany payed to the Jews because it chose to pay. Would Turkey choose to pay to the Armenians?
              I don't really believe that. I know for a fact that Germany wasn't in a position to choose anything. I think it was all imposed on Germany and Germany knew it woulds be futile to resist and now it's being misconstrued as Germany voluntarilly decide to pay billions to the Jews. In the same way, it could have been imposed on Turkey (and Germany), but the countries involved were only interested in how they could profit and cosequently Armenia was made the sacrificial lamb which you can see by the Lausanne treaty. They were too busy taking all they could, so there was nothing left for the Armenians. They made land deals where Turkey was to give up certain territories (where no one cried about those poor Turks being "displaced" as we hear now) and in exchange Turkey could keep Armenian lands.

              If the Armenian Genocide is recognized by Turkey and reparations are payed to Armenians, others such as the Greeks and Assyrians will also want to get a piece of the pie. It wouldn't be fair if they (especially the Assyrians) are ignored in all this.
              Did the Poles and Gypsies ger billions in reperations from Germany? I'm not sure but I think if the Jews got compensation then they should have also. If you burn down a whole neighborhood, you should have to compensate everyone effected even if it takes you the rest of your life to pay after all of your assets have been siezed. And if there were "others" involved, then they should also pay instead of one guy taking the rap for everyone else and being played the patsy.

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by Dave
                The court would not work simply because the Young Turks and the Ottoman Empire don't exist today.
                In addition to what I already wrote, I would like to add. Germany still exists today and since they were partly responsible, then they should also pay. B'nai Brith also still exists today, if you know what I mean.

                But if Turkey can get away with it that easily, another question arises: Why does Turkey still spend millions in denying the Genocide?[/QUOTE]

                They're not the only one spending those millions. Anyway, who do you think is taking those millions to do the all the denying for them?

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by UFraidees
                  Justice, right? I believe the memory of one's native land and their ancestors is within each and every individual's genes.
                  Okay, if you believe that a person's genes holds memories, I guess I really don't know what to say to you.

                  So, OK, let some guy come into your house, kill you and all of your family except for one child. Then say that the killer takes the house, keeps it forever and passes it on to his heirs who had no part in the original crim. So, your child has NO rights to that house. Do I understand you correctly?
                  Armenians have every right to live in Turkey. If you had ancestors that lived on certain land there, and you want to return, do so.

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    The problem then becomes up to how far back in history do we go to reverse/compensate for aquisitions, territorial expansions, wars, pillaging, etc? And I don't just mean Armenians ... and I also don't mean to imply that anyone is entitled to go take what belongs to another.
                    this post = teh win.

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by loseyourname
                      Armenians have every right to live in Turkey. If you had ancestors that lived on certain land there, and you want to return, do so.
                      What if I want the house that belonged to my murdered grandparents but the children of the Turk that murdered my grandparents are living in it?

                      BTW, did you delete that thread about the Times DVD?
                      "that was the renegade Hebrew (donmeh) of Salonika, Talaat, the principal organizer of the massacres and deportations," Rafael De Nogales. Four Years Beneath the Crescent. 1926. p.27

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