What would have happened today if the Armenians were not displaced from Turkey?

[Thai-Samurai]

Right. That also involves some soul searching. And trusting Armenian historians as well.

[loveataturk]

Anatolia is the last remaining mother-land to Turks after the inevitable collapse of the mighty Ottoman Empire, as all Empires should finally crumble, as all man-made structures should...What our post-Ottoman historians and policy-makers forgot is that, anatolia was also mother-land to Greeks and Armenians. Is it possible that the pain of so much land and power drove the Young-Turk movement to desperation, and they retaliated with their remaining power to the smaller of the obstacles to their vision, the small-numbered Greeks and Armenians? It appears plausible.
As for my personal opinion, though I DO BELIEVE in God, I am rather wary and doubtful about the notions of religion, regardless of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, I perceive to be fabrications of mankind. Thus, the notion that any ruling class might decide to push out any other people due to "religion" difference is strange to me...
What has modern day Turkey gained from the lack of her Greek and Armenian minorities? I am afraid, not much at all. MAybe, only the miniscule, at the start, feeling of solidarity against the aggressor Christian West. But, in the medium to long run, perhaps the most enviable aspect of the OTtoman in her stronger days, multi-cultural harmony, was LOST...And today we still quarrel and argue on and on....

[Otto3]

i totally agree.... hi wino.....whats up?

[winoman]

Hey Otto - very nice to see you back. This thread has gotten a bit silly - much as your flip flopping love/hate Armenians etc fellow Turks here - particularly loveataturk who came onto this forum allegedly seeking answers and instead has turned into a typical less then adequatly informed mouthpeice of discredited and offensive contentions - like some German invading an Israeli forum praising Hitler and offering all sorts of excuses and justifications for his/their actions....

So how is bueatiful Izmir this time of year? I am awaiting word from one of my long time best friends - who after hearing me for years sing the praises of the many things to do and see in Anatolia is currently there with his wife and some other friends (whom I don't know). I was consulted heavily for their trip itenerary and suggestions. They began their trip in Istanbul, travelled to South of your area (though not quite so far as Bodrum - at least on land) - chartered a tourquoise coast sailer puttered around for a week or so and then were planning on visiting Efeses, possibly Pamukale, then Cappadocia, Ankara (despite my recomendation against! - they have another friend there) and then are planning to take the overnight train back into Istanbul...I can't wait to hear how it all went and their impressions and such. One bit of advice I gave them - when asking for advice/directions or what not in Turkey - don't rely on just one persons opinion - as you are likely to get entirely false information (as opposed to a "I don't know) - so best to ask around to make sure - etc -

[TomServo]

Otto has been on Turkish Club!

[loveataturk]

wino, you know the saying that goes....when a fellow starts calling others silly, what is he really trying to hide?

[winoman]

wino, you know the saying that goes....when a fellow starts calling others silly, what is he really trying to hide?

No I don't know that saying and I also have no idea how you are implying that it applies...don't think you are dealing with someone who is unknowledgable concerning this issue and history - it is quite a joke that you - a Turk who denies the Armenain Genocide - would accuse me of having something to hide regarding such. So yes - I think most of what you have posted regarding such in this forum is rather silly...sad as well - as you don't seem entirely unintelligent - however you are clearly uniformed - or at least are unable to face the truth - for whatever reason - and perhaps there we can only speculate - though the reasons for your positions seem rather obvious. What I can't fathom is your seeming inability to undewrstand facts andaccept the truth - vary sad - but yeah your posts/positions have been rather silly...

[loveataturk]

Thus, obviously, winoman, you have not been reading my other posts in the subject just above this current one. The TRUTH, which you are so entirely convinced of having grasped, is 90 years old and two stupidly racist and "I win-you lose" governments have been trying to shape this truth to their liking. One TRUTH is inescapable, for even a junior statistics person: If all Armenians all over the world keep claiming for decades that something rather horrible happened to their grandparents....then it must be VERY CLOSE TO TRUTH.

Another inescapable truth: WHY???? IT is there that the "genocide" claim starts to blow up in the face of Armenians. Turks are all horrible evil? We live to make life miserable for others? Is that what you think about current day Turks or our forefathers?

THEN YOU ARE A SAD....SAD....SAD MAN.

[winoman]

Sorry Ataturk lover but you don't know s hit. This has nothing to do with what any Armenian government or Armenian organizations or whatever are claiming (or even what Armenian Grandparents might have passed on to their children - though I will give you credit for recognizing at least this bit of truth) - its a matter of the (known & nearly universally shcolarly accepted) historical record.

And please read my past posts on this issue if you think I am somehow uniformed or hold just a one dimensional position. Likewise there are plenty of facts, data, analysis and what not that are available to you to further understand what occured. You obviously need to be btter informed and should attempt to educate yourself before mouthing off (silly) claims that Armenians are attemtping to shape the truth of anything!

[loveataturk]

Armenian GOOD, Turkish BAD. The ultimate intelligent approach ?
My congratulations.