What would have happened today if the Armenians were not displaced from Turkey?

[Կարմիր Բ]

Today the majority of western Thrace, a land belong to Greece, is Turkish.

The majority of western Thrace is Greek and according to the Treaty of Lausanne ,which Turkey has signed,there is no mention of any Turkish minority in Greece.

Those muslims of Thrace, that you speak of , make a 1.3% of the entire population of Greece.
http://www.cia.gov./cia/publications...gr.html#People

Something which makes the Muslim population something like 130000 people.

Cumanicus, I cannot fathom what makes you believe that the "FREEDOM" of Cyprus from the Greek junta in 1974 by the Turkish military (Praise be upon them) was a mistake?!

I hope everyone is paying close attention to this post. It suggests that countries near the borders of Turkey which have a Turkish population, must be ''liberated''.With that ''logic'',Bulgaria,Thrace,F.Y.R.O.M. all the way to Bosnia must incorporate back to the Ottoman..eh..Turkish Republic.

These are the people we are dealing with.

[Կարմիր Բ]

And why are Armenians not very much behind the Chechens in their struggle to gain their freedom from Russia?

It is called conflict of interests.

[bell-the-cat]

Those muslims of Thrace, that you speak of , make a 1.3% of the entire population of Greece.
http://www.cia.gov./cia/publications...gr.html#People

Something which makes the Muslim population something like 13000 people.

Add an extra "0" to that figure.

[bell-the-cat]

It is called conflict of interests.

Exactly. Leaders in Armenia and NK talk a lot of the justification of NK's independence being based on the human rights and desire for self-determination of the population of NK, yet show none of those high morals when dealing with similar situations elsewhere in the world.

[karoaper]

And why are Armenians not very much behind the Chechens in their struggle to gain their freedom from Russia? Is it because Armenia is, has always been, and probably always will be, Russia's poodle?

I was talking about the people and not the government. The government needs allies, and Russia, though it might have proven to be a treaturous allie in the past, is an allie nontheless. Also, as I said, the Chechen rebels are not friends to us and have actively helped the enemy. As far as the the people are concerned, I don't know much about the prevailing notions.

[Կարմիր Բ]

Add an extra "0" to that figure.

Yea i found 130.000 as well when i made my calculations.I had doubts about it though, so i didn't want to add that aditional 0.

Exactly. Leaders in Armenia and NK talk a lot of the justification of NK's independence being based on the human rights and desire for self-determination of the population of NK, yet show none of those high morals when dealing with similar situations elsewhere in the world.

That is something very logical and of course it happens elsewhere in the world.For example the Chechens do not support NK either so the feelings are mutual.

Although i believe that ,due to the globalisation and the policies of ''free market'',it is inevitable that in the future there wont be borders and neither nations to speak of.

After all ''modern'' nationalism was invented in the 18th century.

Having said that ,it is time for the people to stop being concerned with their narrow national interests and to focus to the class struggle.

Of course it is easy to say all the above,but to follow them it is hard.

[karoaper]

Personally I don't care how many Turks live in Thrace. Thrace is historically a hellenic land, so the Turks have no historical claims to the land, unlike the Armenians of Karabakh whose presence in Artsakh goes back 2 millenia. Also, to suggest that any vestige of minority peoples in any counry has the right to demand independence is absurd.

Karabakh was an autonomous region (one step up from a republic) on the premises of republic of Azerbaijan. The local communist goverment of Karabakh was already Armenian. After the break up of Soviet Union, the overwhelming majority of the people and government (something like 98%) of Karabakh voted (as per international law) to break away from Azerbaijan, because there was no future for this semi-autonomous Christian Armenian enclave in an Muslim Azeri coutry.

Thus, if there were legal (or so we thought) means for attaining independence, why would Armenia initiate an armed conflict. Another thing, Karabakh was initially completely isolated from Armenia. Only after mostly Karabakhi Armenians burrowed a narrow corridor to Armenia, was Armenia able to actively help with weapons, recruits, etc.

[Otto3]

Tomservo has been on TurkishClub too...

so...lets see the situation here... we Turks are mostly raised and educated in a militaristic/nationalist way (is not that true?)...we lost many turks during long wars at the end of ottoman empire including civillians in liberation war back in 1920s... so dont believe the turks who say " we really feel sorry for your loses".... they have good intentions for sure...but look what happened...we dont even know how many turkish civillians died in liberation war(killed by greeks)... that means we dont care much about our own people...so it is gonna take a long time for us to care for others... thats the point that prevents us to understand each other... we think like " turks died in a war (which is %99 of our history) and they are now in heaven and we must move on"... Turkish people forget quickly... thats why we always tell you to forget and move on... just wanted to explain this.. we have always been walking and bruied the dead on the way and moved on ..army style eh?... am i wrong ? and you never forget...thats what drives us crazy...

[winoman]

Otto as much as i understand what you are trying to say - you should understand that to come here - as a Turk - and ask Armenians to have empathy for Turkish losses in wars (or otherwise) is not likely to ever elicit the response (sympathy) you are hoping for. Sorry. I do understand your point - and why Armenians as a people might be ones to have empathy for loss - just in general - but you have to understand that given the situation where your nation so vehemetly denies what was done to Armenians - and worse - continually seeks to turn it back on us - and blame us - etc - well come now - how can you expect Armenian to have any sympathy. A great many of us would love if there were no Turks left at all on the planet and most others are going to have great difficulty seeing your plight (or past misfortune) as something at all they could care about in the least. And you would likely feel the same way if the roles were reversed - considering what was done and the total lack of any compassion from either The Turkish government nor most Turks (and most of what we get is outright hostility). So please don't expect such when everything - including your government and most Turks - is stacked against and gives no reason for sympathy on the part of most all Armenians.

[skhara]

Although i believe that ,due to the globalisation and the policies of ''free market'',it is inevitable that in the future there wont be borders and neither nations to speak of.

Having said that ,it is time for the people to stop being concerned with their narrow national interests and to focus to the class struggle.

Is there a vomit smily somewhere?

I guess this will have to do: