What would have happened today if the Armenians were not displaced from Turkey?

[The Mad Turk]

Tomservo has been on TurkishClub too...

so...lets see the situation here... we Turks are mostly raised and educated in a militaristic/nationalist way (is not that true?)...we lost many turks during long wars at the end of ottoman empire including civillians in liberation war back in 1920s... so dont believe the turks who say " we really feel sorry for your loses".... they have good intentions for sure...but look what happened...we dont even know how many turkish civillians died in liberation war(killed by greeks)... that means we dont care much about our own people...so it is gonna take a long time for us to care for others... thats the point that prevents us to understand each other... we think like " turks died in a war (which is %99 of our history) and they are now in heaven and we must move on"... Turkish people forget quickly... thats why we always tell you to forget and move on... just wanted to explain this.. we have always been walking and bruied the dead on the way and moved on ..army style eh?... am i wrong ? and you never forget...thats what drives us crazy...

Very correct.Good point.Bravo!!!

[TomServo]

Beyinsiz.

[karoaper]

Very correct.Good point.Bravo!!!

It's an interesting argument, though not really applicable to the Armenian Genocide. The history of Armenia is likewise mostly filled with armed struggles, our triumphs over the conquerors followed by periods of independence and cultural expansion and our losses followed by decades and centuries of oppression and foreign yoke. Armenians have been conquered by the Romans, Persians, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottomans, and each time we were conquered ment civilians either killed or oppressed. However in all our history we were never attacked with the simple goal of cleansing our historic lands from us. When your civilians died, they died in wars which ostensibly your nation started (in its mad drive to conquer Asia and Europe). Let's be frank your job was to dish out suffering not to receive it. You might have gotten some suffering only because your plans had failed. When Turks were kicked out of the revolting nations, they had Turkey to come back to. Your people still could keep their dignity. You could bury your dead for example.

What your nation funded, supervises and carried out, was an extermination of people the way your exterminate insects. Not only did more than a million and half people die in premeditated massacres, but the survivors found themselves homeless, frantically escaping the massacres as they left their dead mothers, fathers, spouses, siblings on the side of the road without so much as the being able to carry out proper burials.

Nothing in our history of continuous and sometimes uninteruppted subjugation and oppression compares to the barbaric treatment we got from the Turks. The fact that almost every single peoples your forefathers, the Ottomans, lorded over (including your muslim brothers the Arabs) desperately tried to break free ment they were intimately aquainted with your brutal ways.

[TomServo]

It's an interesting argument, though not really applicable to the Armenian Genocide. The history of Armenia is likewise mostly filled with armed struggles, our triumphs over the conquerors followed by periods of independence and cultural expansion and our losses followed by decades and centuries of oppression and foreign yoke. Armenians have been conquered by the Romans, Persians, Byzantines, Arabs, Ottomans, and each time we were conquered ment civilians either killed or oppressed. However in all our history we were never attacked with the simple goal of cleansing our historic lands from us. When your civilians died, they died in wars which ostensibly your nation started (in its mad drive to conquer Asia and Europe). Let's be frank your job was to dish out suffering not to receive it. You might have gotten some suffering only because your plans had failed. When Turks were kicked out of the revolting nations, they had Turkey to come back to. Your people still could keep their dignity. You could bury your dead for example.

What your nation funded, supervises and carried out, was an extermination of people the way your exterminate insects. Not only did more than a million and half people die in premeditated massacres, but the survivors found themselves homeless, frantically escaping the massacres as they left their dead mothers, fathers, spouses, siblings on the side of the road without so much as the being able to carry out proper burials.

Nothing in our history of continuous and sometimes uninteruppted subjugation and oppression compares to the barbaric treatment we got from the Turks. The fact that almost every single peoples your forefathers, the Ottomans, lorded over (including your muslim brothers the Arabs) desperately tried to break free ment they were intimately aquainted with your brutal ways.

Bravo!

[Կարմիր Բ]

Bravo!

Bravo!

[cumanicus]

Cumanicus - your "facts" regarding the NK conflict are seriously wrong. The agression was clearly and demonstradably on the part of the Azeris. Armenians were only doing what they had to do to survive and secure themselves from further attack (land corridor and seizing the high ground surrounding NK). The "massacres" and expulsions of civilians began with the Azeris and were mostly perpetrated by them. While in war sometimes tragedies do occur - and I'm not claiming that the Armenian or NK fighters are free from soem blame - but the facts regarding the alledged Kolijai incident are not at all clear cut and there is evidence that the Armenian forces warned and gave time for civilians to evacuate (from a town where the Azeri forces were cowardly sheilding themselves among civilians yet shelling Armenian forces from such a position) and it also seems that the Azeri forces may have evens fired upon and killed their own - or at least there is a great deal of evidence/accounts that suggest that the dead were collected and arranged to look like a massacre. And what I find very interesting is that the bodies were all found in territory completley controlled by the Azeri forces - who were ousted from Kolijai proper...so much is truly unknown concerning this incident. And even if the Azeri version is true - OK - it was perhaps a tragedy -as all civilian losses in warfare are - OK - however this does not change the situation of Azeri aggression against a legal Armenain state entity - Nagorno Karabagh - which had obtained independence legally from the USSR by way of referendum - and the Azeri response was to blaockade and invade and attempt to terrorize and drive out the Armenian population. The Azeri forces continued this until forcibly driven out and they continued to shell into NK until driven from their positions in the surrounding high ground - and these are the positions now held by the Armenians. This was an entirely defensive war on the part of the Armenians and you can in no way compare any of it to the Genocide of Armenians in 1915 - no way - no how - another sorry Turkish cop out that ain't gonna fly...

Sorry, I am not an expert, but your claim that Azeri government massacred their own people to label Armenians sound like CIA organized September 11 to justify USA invasion to Iraq. I don't believe conspiracy theories generally.

By the way, I never compared NK wit 1915.

Hmm, your statement that tragedies can happen to civilians in a warfare condition sounds interesting to me.

[karoaper]

Bravo!

Bravo!

Bravo!!!

[The Mad Turk]

Beyinsiz.

What do you mean?

[Thai-Samurai]

The CIA did organize 911 but that's a whole nother story.

[TomServo]

What do you mean?

You know exactly what I mean.