Could it have been avoided?

[hyeclass]

anilev go xxxx urself i read more than u will ever read in ur life and dont take it to ur heart like u always do take it to the nipple u dumb xxxx i dont need to show u who i am cuz ur just another wanna be who needs a husband but doesnt know where to look

[anileve]

anilev go xxxx urself i read more than u will ever read in ur life and dont take it to ur heart like u always do take it to the nipple u dumb xxxx i dont need to show u who i am cuz ur just another wanna be who needs a husband but doesnt know where to look

Hyeclass, now listen well. I don't particularly thrive on our debates. If you enjoy engaging in discussions by spewing filthy language do it with someone else and in different threads. You obviously constantly look to bash someone or something to substitute your lack of input in anything intelligent. If you find it entertaining to shock people with your absurd and offensive language do it in your own threads. I will no longer bother to converse with you and therefore try not to direct any of your filth towards me. It’s simple stay out of my way and I will stay out of yours. Let us simply try to avoid each other.

[anileve]

anilev go xxxx urself i read more than u will ever read in ur life and dont take it to ur heart like u always do take it to the nipple u dumb xxxx i dont need to show u who i am cuz ur just another wanna be who needs a husband but doesnt know where to look

And by the way, where did I even mention that I want you to show me who you are? Frankly I have no interest in knowing anything about you, you have already showed me the little there is about you and that is plenty for me to stay uninterested.

Oh yeah... and don't take it to your heart like you always do...take it to your scrotum (since that is the location of your brilliant mind).

[hyeclass]

ya now ur acting like a reall girl i like that. i guess u didnt like my bad words well i didnt like the way when i put ur self in places where u dont belong so its a deal i wont talk to u again

[sSsflamesSs]

ya now ur acting like a reall girl i like that. i guess u didnt like my bad words well i didnt like the way when i put ur self in places where u dont belong so its a deal i wont talk to u again

Oh, dear Lord! He used a period! Halle-freakin'-luiah!

[anileve]

ya now ur acting like a reall girl i like that. i guess u didnt like my bad words well i didnt like the way when i put ur self in places where u dont belong so its a deal i wont talk to u again

Oh, dear Lord! He used a period! Halle-freakin'-luiah!

Amen! I do have a talent for reconditioning difficult personalities.

[Anonymouse]

Anon, thanks for pointing out the obvious, yes of course they are not the same. Perhaps the only governments that are the same are those of the Indian tribes in the jungles of Brazil. Evolution takes place and every empire had it’s moment of glory that has faded; that is the cycle of life. For the time being America is that victorious empire but it’s time will also expire and a new power will emerge.

The fact is that even though virtually every country has undergone changes, they are still the same countries and are still standing. No one gov’t including Armenia is the same it was 500 years ago. Armenia has changed also, where as it used to be primarily dominated by the farm life, now it is undergoing a technological and industrial advancement. .

First you state that you acknowledge these countries have changed yet you state something totally different in the second paragraph.

No country is the same country when dealing with past empires. The laws, codes, morals, religion and people that made up a country such as Rome at one time or Athens, or Egypt are not the same as the people now.

Whereas Armenians and their culture have survived, the Romans and their culture perish, as did the Athenians, the Assyrians, etc. We cannot look at the present definitions and use them as a yardstick to measure the past. Instead we must look at the past in and of itself without present bias.

India and Greece as you pointed out are a different can of worms. If you can remember Greece broke away from the Turks in 1832 and established an independent gov’t. India with the strong leadership of Gandhi and his promotion of unity broke away from the British. Greeks interestingly enough rebelled and the Armenians still remained comfortably under the Ottomans until they were shattered in 1894-1896. Through out our history we were ruled by virtually all of the world’s major powers. .

The same applies here. The area known as Greece has undergone so many changes historically that they cannot possibly be the same as they were during the classical period. Like I said before they were a differnet people with a different culture, religion, laws and morals and "Greece" is only a modern term that has been given to the name of that country with its own laws and codes and morals and political system, as it became a nation state, just like Armenia is a modern name given to Armenians when it became a nation-state in 91, bearing no resemblance to that of the ancient Greeks who identified themselves with the city states they were from.

And you are wrong Armenians had also their conquests dated back to 1256-62 the Armenian inhabited of lands of Capadoccia, Herclia, Manion, the cities of Marash, Aintab and Pehesin were annexed to Kilikia. Armenians if processed unity would have invaded other nations, but they had a very weak strategy. What about Basil I who murdered his “confidant” Bardas? Armenians had that ego and machismo to prove that they were worriers inside also. They just never organized a unity. .

This is my point precisely. A people that have historically been on the defensive usually trying to stay to themselves and never having war aspirations of conquering and invading, could not have survived long with a centralized ruling authority bent on invasion. And when they did it proved detrimental. Historically in the Armenian epic and saga recorded by Movses Khorenatis Armenians are displayed as a peopel always on the defensive trying to maintain their way of living as is evident int he legendary epic of Hayk and Bel, and even Armenian heroes are always portrayed as defending the Armenian family and culture against the invaders.

Now you raise a point that central organized system makes you vulnerable, but the lack of it makes you even more so. .

No one said there is anything perfect here but historically all empires with central ruling systems evnetually crumble, as a light look at the study of chaos theory can demonstrate. Armenia, because of its historically loosely organized provinces and its nakharrar system has survived. Whereas one pocket may have fallen to the enemy, there was always one more to carry on the culture and identity of Armenians, and this is as well due to Armenias geographic location, the highlands, where it is hard to maintain a central ruling empire. Armenian history has always involved them having a strong sense of individuality and particularism never bowing before the terms of another. When the capitals of great Empires are sacked then that sends a chain reaction in the rest of the empire because then that society, in its daily intricacies is tied to central rule. When the Visigoths sacked Rome that already sent chills down the spines of many as that was a sign of the decay of Rome. When Nineveh of Assyria was attacked the same could be said of these centrally organized systems.

I still strongly stand my ground on the issue that the reason why we lack that unity is because as someone put it “One of the main problems we face as Armenians, is that we each think that our opinions and the stance held by organizations that we adhere to are necessarily the correct ones.” Everyone thinks that his opinion is superior to his neighbors or friends. Even now the parliament has a hard time executing proper actions because people refuse to act in unity, everyone clings to their own resolutions. That is the failure. .

I agree that Armenians lack a sense of unity but this comes from our history which has molded in us a strange cultural consciousness of that strong individuality and particularism. For a small people individualism has been important and Armenians in my opinion haven't been the most united but have always been united enough to survive, not to form their empire or conquer others. For a small people, a lack of quantity they sure do have alot of quality.

I think our situation could have been avoided. If only Armenians inspired by the movement of the Greeks, separated themselves from the Ottomans there could have a slight chance of avoiding both of the incidents. Armenians on the other hand comfortable with the governance of the foreign nation resorted to just staying put, since each one wanted to be the one to call the shots so you just rely on mediation of the third party which in this case was the Ottoman empire. .

I agree that we could have been inspired by the Greeks, but historically being a people always on the defensive and having loosely organized systems of living like the nakharrar system and never having success with a centrally ruling authority based on invasions and conquering, Armenians have developed a different sense of cultural consciousness as opposed to the Greeks who have done their share of pillaging and conquering and at one time possessing armies of great destruction. In criminal psychology the best determinent in predicting the future of a known criminal is their past, and the same can be said of cultures as well I believe since they are composed of individuals as well just one a collective level. It was obvious looking into Armenian history that they didn't move towards independence but contuinued to live their normal some under Ottoman rule some under Persian rule at another time, some under Soviet rule yet at another period, and it had always been so.

The only thing I fear now is the gradual disintegration of Armenians in the diaspora.