Turkish Diplomats Secretly Meet In Europe

[Gavur]

ARMENIAN AND TURKISH DIPLOMATS SECRETLY MEET IN EUROPE: TURKISH MASS MEDIA

YEREVAN, JULY 12. ARMINFO. A secret meeting of Armenian and Turkish diplomats took place in a European town. As Radio "Liberty" informs, CNN-Turk Turkish TV-channel has released this information. According to the source, during the meeting Turkey presented its proposals on the issue of normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations.

The meeting took place after the exchange of letters of Armenian President Robert Kocharyan and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. To remind, the letters concerned with the issue of recognizing Armenian Genocide. According to the same source, the second meeting of both countriess diplomats will take place shortly in one of European towns. Armenia will present its proposals there. CNN-Turk also informs that Kocharyan and Erdogan have reached an agreement to take concrete steps to satisfy both sides and to create the atmosphere of confidence. They have not commented on this information in Armenia's Foreign Ministry yet.

[Gavur]

There Is Nothing New In Meetings Of Turkish And Armenian Diplomats:

THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN MEETINGS OF TURKISH AND ARMENIAN DIPLOMATS:
TURKISH FM


YEREVAN, JULY 14. ARMINFO. Turkish and Armenian diplomats are holding
talks for settling bilateral problems and there is nothing new in
this, Trend reports Turkish FM Abduallah Gul as saying in the UK.

Our only goal is to ensure stability in the Caucasus, says Gul noting
that the Turkish-Armenian talks have been held for a long time
already. Sometimes such meeting are held by ministers. Turkey is
seeking to elaborate a mutually acceptable position.

Armenia's Foreign Ministry says that Armenian-Turkish contacts are
underway. Medium-level officials are meeting within different
international events.

To remind, earlier a Turkish media reported that Turkish and Armenian
diplomats had met secretly in a European country and the Turkish side
had presented a package of proposal for "settling all the mutual
problems." The sides decided to meet once again for the Armenian side
to respond to the proposals.

[Gavur]

Arménie does not see any projection following the discussions with Turkey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arménie does not see any projection following the discussions with Turkey

BLOCKADES, Wednesday July 27, 2005, Armenews Arménie and Turkey did not make any progress concerning the normalization of their relations during their last diplomatic contacts. It is what Tuesday the vice-minister of the Foreign Affairs declared Armenian, Arman Kirakosian.
Diplomats of the two countries held of the secret discussions in Europe at the beginning of the month to discuss possibilities of attenuating the tensions. The Turkish part was represented by a member of the Ministry for Foreign Affairs and the ambassador of Ankara in Georgia. Armenian governmental sources specified that the meeting had taken place in Vienna and that the Armenian delegation was directed by Kirakosian.
This last did not contradict information " They exist various forms of contacts arméno-Turkish, it explained. The first concerns the Foreign Ministers. As each one knows, the two ministers met lately regularly. Another is at the level of the persons in charge for the departments of the ministry. Thus the dialogue continues ". " But until now, we did not achieve any political progress ", it added.
According to him, the discussions mainly evoked the exchange of letters between Kotcharian, Armenian president, and Erdogan, Turkish Prime Minister, last April. Erdogan proposed that Ankara and Erevan set up a commission of historians charged to study the events of 1915-1918 and to determine if it is about a génocide. Kotcharian had called with the creation of an intergovernmental commission which would have examined this question but also other points concerning the two countries.
" As the letter of the president suggested it, we proposed, during the negotiations, the creation of an intergovernmental commission charged to manage the various problems", underlined Kirakosian, by specifying that Arménie continued to support the normalization of the bilateral relations "without précondition".
It added that Erevan would accept even a gradual reopening of the arméno-Turkish border " But I must say that there was no progress concerning this question ", explained the vice-minister.
Several official Turkish and the Erdogan Prime Minister had pointed out it has been a few months that the reopening of the border would be related to a resolution of the conflict of Karabagh favorable to Azerbaďdjan. The Turks also claimed the end of the Armenian campaign for the international recognition of the génocide of 1915.

[Gavur]

Turks ‘Support Government Stance On Armenian Genocide’

Armenian Liberty

Most ordinary Turks support their government’s strong denial of the Armenian genocide despite a growing realization of the need to address the sensitive subject, according to an Armenian diplomat who worked in Istanbul for three years.

Arsen Avagian, an Armenian Foreign Ministry official, suggested on Thursday that only a small group of liberal Turkish intellectuals would now openly describe the 1915-1918 mass killings and deportations of more than a million Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as a genocide. “As one member of this group has said, there are just a few dozen people thinking like that,” he told a seminar on Turkish-Armenian relations in Yerevan.

Last May, a group of Turkish historians challenging the official line on the issue cancelled a planned conference in Istanbul under government pressure. Justice Minister Cemil Cicek accused them of “stabbing Turkey in the back.”

Avagian, who headed Armenia’s permanent representation at the Istanbul headquarters of the Black Sea Economic Cooperation (BSEC) organization from 2002-2005, said he believes the vast majority of Turks agrees with official Ankara’s version of the events of 1915-1918. It holds that Armenians died in much smaller numbers and only as a result of civil unrest.

In Avagian’s view, the main reason for the Turkish genocide denial is a psychological one. The Turks, he said, fear that they will perceived by the outside world as “barbarians” if they recognize the Armenian massacres as genocide.

David Phillips, a U.S. scholar who chaired the former Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission (TARC), suggested a similar explanation in a book published earlier this year. “Turks refuse to acknowledge the genocide because acknowledgement contradicts their noble self-image,” he wrote.

That might explain why a halt to the increasingly successful Armenian campaign for international recognition of the genocide is one of Turkey’s preconditions for normalizing relations with Armenia. Senior officials from the two countries held secret talks in Vienna last month in yet another attempt to improve bilateral ties. They reportedly failed to make any progress, however.

[Gavur]

Reopening border depends on Armenia's 'partial' withdrawal from Nagorno-Karabakh

Secret Turkish-Armenian Talks Focused On 3 Key Areas
Reopening border depends on Armenia's 'partial' withdrawal from Nagorno-Karabakh

Ayhan Simsek
The New Anatolian / Ankara


Turkey is considering reopening its border with Armenia if Yerevan will commit to a partial pullout from the occupied Nagorno-Karabakh region of Azerbaijan, diplomatic sources told The New Anatolian yesterday, speaking on condition of anonymity. Ankara expects a pullback from four regions in Nagorno-Karabakh, and believes that such a move can facilitate a comprehensive agreement between Yerevan and the Azeri capital Baku.

Secret talks between Turkish and Armenian senior diplomats seeking ways to normalize relations were focused on three key areas, according to diplomatic sources.

One of the key points in the talks was the recognition of the existing common borders. TNA learned that at a meeting between senior diplomats last month, Ankara suggested an "exchange of letters" between the two countries, in which the both parties would reaffirm their commitment to the Kars and Gumru Treaties of 1921. Armenian diplomats rejected this suggestion, stating that while they do not have any territorial claims or problem with recognizing the existing borders, they cannot accept this since the treaties set down Nagorno-Karabakh as Azerbaijani territory. The Armenian side proposed other formulas to meet Turkey's expectations.

Yerevan's demand for the reopening of the Turkish-Armenian border constitutes another important issue in the talks. Ankara recently conveyed that it would consider reopening the border if Yerevan were to partially withdrawal from Nagorno-Karabakh. One diplomat said that the Azeris and Armenians are close to an agreement which would foresee an Armenian withdrawal from four regions in Nagorno-Karabakh, and Turkey has a positive view of this. But, Turkish diplomats underline that they are not a party to the negotiations and what is important is that any proposal must be satisfactory to the Azeris.

A third key issue in the talks between Turkish and Armenian diplomats was on the formation of a committee of historians. In recent meetings between senior diplomats, the Armenian side offered to establish a commission composed of parliamentarians and suggested that a committee of historians would be a subcommittee to it. Turkish diplomats had some reservations concerning the Armenians' suggestion, but the two sides agreed that the committee of historians should include Turkish, Armenian and Armenian diaspora members but no other third party.

This April, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan sent a letter to President Robert Kocharian, proposing to set up a commission of historians who would jointly study the events of 1915-18 and the genocide allegations. Kocharian responded by calling for the creation of a Turkish-Armenian intergovernmental body that would tackle this and other issues of mutual concern.


Source: TNA, 11 August 2005

[Hovik]

This is disgusting... one word for you Turkey "NO". No pre-conditions for border opening... period. And we will not withdrawl or give up any of our current districts in Artsakh, you're lucky thats all we took...

[Hovik]

I am not concerned with your opinion maestro. Suffering economicly? Have you paid any attention to the posts in this forum regarding who border opening would benefit. We have posted ample evidence, including studies by economists in Europe and the U.S. who have found that if anything, the border opening would have negative ramifications on Armenia, and postive ones on Turkey. I believe a recent World Bank Study showed the same. Furthermore, I would hope that Armenia would stand by its pledge that there will be no-preconditions on Turkey's part, accepted by Armenia to the opening of the frontier. It is up to Turkey to open the border and to enter EU accession talks, they probably will have to do so. Armenia has no sacrifices to make in the mean time - none whatsoever. By the way - on economic suffering - I happen to have a home in Gomidas District, Yerevan, I also happen to have half of my family there. I spend months there every year, and I don't need to be told about the economic status of the country. When there is double-digit economic growth posted in the current year and last 3 (as I recall) I know that the economy although nominally weak, is posting strong growth figures, which are perhaps, more important. Slowly the household income is increasing, unemployment is making some postive changes, and inflation is under control. In my contact with representatives of the CBA, I have been reassured that my observations are correct.

We are far from the richest and most powerful country in the world, probably will never have the kind of 'money' or 'power' that you have in Turkey. We have a different kind of strength, a strength as a nation that has been kicked around for centuries - and who has recently resolved to stop being kicked around. Arstakh embodies our new identity, with our ancient weapons, and low supplies, our patriotic warriors defeated the Turkish Azeri Army in battle after battle, while the cowardly pathetic Turks were launching grad missiles at innocent farmers near Stepanakert. Our hero's, our fedayi fought with honor that the Azeri Turks could never dream of attaining. And all that against a country with money, with new and plentiful weapons, and far more soldiers. Azeri Turks begged for that cease-fire, and those districts are the price they should have to pay for that cease-fire.

I would hope that the liberators of Artsakh would never have to sack more 'Turkish Territory' to stop the war, but if that is what needs to be done to stop Turkish barbarity towards Armenians and Karabaghcis then so be it.

Don't thank God we didn't go that far, thank the losing Azeri Turkish Cowards...

[Gavur]

Turkish and Greek Cypriot officials in Cyprus are reported to have secret contacts

Sunday, October 09 2005
Turkish and Greek Cypriot officials in Cyprus are reported to have secret contacts with the “permission” of President of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Mehmet Ali Talat and the leader of the Greek Cypriot authority.

“Representatives of Talat and Tasos are having discussions about the Cyprus question both in Cyprus and abroad. With the permission of Talat and Tasos, Turkish and Greek Cypriot officials in Cyprus have had a number of negotiations inside and outside Cyprus,” it was stated in an article of the Greek Cypriot newspaper Filelefthreros, headlined “They are preparing the initiative”. The news story was focused on the speculation that foreign countries find it convenient to stick to the secret diplomacy in order to start a new series of activities in Cyprus, adding “activities of that kind are intended to lay the groundwork for the United Nations (UN) Secretary-General Kofi Annan so that the secretary general could handle the Cyprus question.

http://www.turks.us/article.php?story=20051009061027967

[Gavur]

Vartan Oskanian 'refuses To Hold Further Protocol Meetings' With Turkish Fm

As 'Ankara does not have courage to do what is in Turkey's best interests'

According to Mediamax agency, Armenian FM Vartan Oskanian labeled "propaganda" Ankara's proposal of joint commission to study events of early 20th century. "That was a step of propaganda. Firstly, all evidence is already here, secondly, such a commission cannot function in vacuum. They need first open the border and establish diplomatic relations with us only then the initiative will be meaningful."

"We want the EU to force Turkey to open its border with Armenia and strengthen the freedom of speech to open doors for public discussion of the Armenian Genocide," Armenia's foreign minister told a German newspaper yesterday.

Asked about the absence of contacts between Armenian and Turkish FMs after the 3 stages of negotiations, Vartan Oskanian stated: "I do not want to take part in merely protocol meetings that tried to convince the world that Armenia and Turkey were negotiating but nothing happened in fact. Regrettably, Ankara is not ready for a serious step yet. Turkey obeys the interests of a third state. Gul downplayed Baku's influence. But it shows that Ankara does not have courage to do what is in its best interests."

[Gavur]

Belgium To Support The Meeting Of The Armenian And Turkish Parliemant Presidents

A1 Plus News Oct 31 2005
October 31 the RA NA President Arthur Baghdasaryan received the Belgium Senate President Ann Mary Lizin who is in Armenia on official duty.

During the meeting issues about the development of the relations between the Parliaments of the two countries, regional policy and integration into the European structures were discussed. Mrs. Lizin offered to support the meeting of the Presidents of the Armenian and Turkish Parliaments in January 2006 in Brussels during which issues about mutual relations will be discussed.