"insulting Turkish identity"

[Gavur]

YEREVAN, JULY 14. ARMINFO. Reporters Without Borders today criticised the current trial of a Turkish-Armenian journalist, Hrant Dink, for "insulting Turkish identity" and said the government taboo against publicly discussing the 1915 genocide against Armenians was a "continuing barrier to freedom of expression" in Turkey.

It said that with only three months to go before negotiations were due to start about Turkey joining the European Union, Dink risked being jailed under article 301 of the criminal code for publishing an article (on 13 February 2004) called "Getting to know Armenia" in the Turkish- Armenian bilingual weekly, Agos, that he runs. His trial began on 7 July before a court in Sisli, Istanbul.

The world press freedom organisation said it was concerned about fuzzy language in the new criminal code that could "easily be used against journalists discussing sensitive topics," such as the Armenian genocide or withdrawal of Turkish troops from Cyprus.

Dink's article urged Armenians to turn their attention "to the new blood of independent Armenia," as the only way to free them from the burden of exile and called on them to symbolically reject "the adulterated part of their Turkish blood." Nine complaints for "insulting Turkish identity" had been filed against him by 16 April 2004 before the Sisli court. "This trial is based on a total misunderstanding," Dink told Reporters Without Borders. "I never meant to insult Turkish citizens. The term in question was taken out of context and is only symbolic. The real subject of the article is the Armenian diaspora who, once they have come to terms with the Turkish part of their identity, can seek new answers to their questions from independent Armenia."

State prosecutor Turgay Evsen has called for a three-year prison sentence for Dink under the new penal code, which came into force on 1 June. Dink founded his paper in Istanbul in 1996 and it has a circulation of 5,500.

[Hovik]

This reminds me, someone B.S.ed in this forum about something Hrant Dink supposedly said involving reparations by the TR for material possessions which were siezed by Turks during the Genocide. I contacted him and have long since recieved his response which basically said the person who posted that nonsense in this forum was lying. I will try to remember to post his response in the near future...

Thanks for the info Gavur

[Gavur]

*pastor Shocks Turkish Tv

*PASTOR SHOCKS TURKISH TV VIEWERS BY BOLD REMARKS ON GENOCIDE*

Even though the Turks are supposed to be on their best behavior in order
to convince the Europeans that they are civilized enough to join the
European Union, they are still extremely intolerant of anyone who dares
to bring up the taboo subject of the Armenian Genocide.

Last month, when Orhan Pamuk, an internationally-known Turkish novelist,
boldly told a foreign reporter that one million Armenians were killed
around 1915, just about all Turkish commentators, historians
(government-paid propagandists) and politicians severely condemned the
writer for making such a statement. A radical Turkish group even called
for the murder of this "traitor." Furthermore, a Turkish publisher is
being prosecuted by the government for releasing the Turkish translation
of an English language book that urges the acknowledgment of the
Armenian Genocide. Around six months ago, in the midst of trying to
qualify for the start of membership talks to join the EU, the Turkish
Parliament adopted a new law that makes it a crime for anyone to
acknowledge the Armenian Genocide. If this is how the Turkish government
is acting, while trying to impress the Europeans, imagine what it would
do if its actions were not under scrutiny!

Given all the controversy this issue has generated within Turkey, the
Turkish "Flash TV" decided to air earlier this month a five-hour live
talk show on the Armenian Genocide. The host of the program requested
that the Armenian Patriarchate send a representative to take part in
this show. However, the Patriarchate refused to participate by saying
that it did not have an expert on the subject to be discussed. The host
then invited Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu, the outspoken and courageous
pastor of a local Armenian evangelical church, to present "the Armenian
point of view." Rev. Aghabaloghlu is a well-known activist who has
already been jailed once for challenging the confiscation of his
church's property by the Turkish government.

While there have been many talk shows on the Armenian issue, no one has
ever dared to go on Turkish TV and repeatedly assert in a bold and
brazen manner, as Rev. Aghabaloghlu did, that there is no doubt a
genocide was committed against the Armenians. Both Hulki Jevizoglu, the
host of the show, and his main guest, historian Mehmet Saray were
dumb-founded and tongue-tied by the Armenian clergyman's unexpectedly
outspoken remarks. In a very calm and congenial manner, and with always
a smile on his face, Pastor Aghabaloghlu said on national Turkish TV
that all Turks in Anatolia know the truth about the Armenian Genocide.
He said that no one dared to talk about this subject and that anyone who
had the courage to speak about it, is called a traitor, condemned by the
media, taken to court, and sent to jail.

Despite all attempts to shut him up during the show, Rev. Aghabaloghlu
kept on insisting that as a clergyman he has the obligation to tell the
truth. When asked to back up his comments, he said that he knew the
facts first-hand from the experiences of his own family. Besides, he
added, there is plenty of evidence for the Genocide in thousands of
books and that everyone knew that the Armenians in Anatolia were the
victims of Genocide. Otherwise, he said, what did happen to the
Armenians inhabiting that region? Did they evaporate? Did they decide to
migrate en masse? Are there any Armenians left in Anatolia?

Making the Turks even angrier, Rev. Aghabaloghlu said that since
Armenians are mistreated in Turkey today, one can only imagine how much
worse their treatment must have been back then under the Ottoman Empire?

Mehmet Saray, the Turkish historian, was so enraged by the Armenian
clergyman's assertions that he ke
pt asking the host of the show, "where
did you find this man?" Saray said he would have refused to appear on
the show if he had known that he would take part in such a "low quality"
discussion and that his years of research and his books on this issue
would be ignored.

When a viewer from Erzeroum called to say that mass graves of Turks were
recently uncovered, Rev. Aghabaloghlu immediately retorted: "How do you
know that these bones did not belong to Armenians?"

This astounding conversation, broadcast live to millions of Turkish
viewers, went on until the wee hours of the morning.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu is the courageous shepherd not only of his own flock,
but that of all Armenians in Turkey who dare not to speak out fearing
for their lives! The good pastor risked his life by making such bold
remarks on a taboo subject in Turkey. European Union officials should
warn the Turkish government that Turkey's EU membership prospects would
be seriously jeopardized should anything happen to this brave Armenian
servant of God who, as he says, has an obligation to tell the truth!

*/By Harut Sassounian; Publisher, The California Courier/*

[Gavur]

By the way in the same interview he states the following as well...

Ermeniler bireysel olarak mahkemeye başvurduklarında neyin tazmin edilmesini isteyecekler?

Sonuçta Ermeniler Türkiye'den giderken zenginliklerini, evlerini sırtlarında götürmediler. Ama bugün çıkarılan yeni belgelerde, 'O günkü hükümet öyle iyi niyetliydi ki, Ermenilerden kalan malları, mülkleri zapturapt altına aldı. Özel komisyonlar kurdu, zenginlikleri kayda geçirdi. Ermeniler dönünce, malları onlara geri verilecekti. Kayıtlar var' deniyor. Ne olur bir tane de şöyle bir kayıt göstersinler. 'Derzor'a... Ermenilerin ölüm bölgesi olan Derzor'a gönderilen şu aileye,
Anadolu'da bıraktıklarının karşılığı olarak Derzor'da şu ödendi' diye bir belge göstersinler. 'Ermenilere mülklerini dağıtan belgeler burada. Geri aldılar, ödendi' desinler. Binlerce yıllık bir toplumun ürettiği uygarlığın, zenginliğin ne olduğu, bunun...

Kimlere geçtiği mi?

Kimlere geçtiği... Bu, Türkiye'nin konuşamadığı temel sorunlarından biri zaten. Ermeni mülkleri meselesi hakikaten Türkiye'nin şu anda geleceğe ilişkin en öcü konusu, en korkunç konusudur. Bence Türkiye Ermenilerden gelebilecek tazminat talebinin hukuki tedbirini zamanında aldı. Çünkü 'emval-ı metruke' diye bir kanun çıkarılmış. Ermenilere süre verilmiş, 'Gelsinler, mallarını vereceğiz' denmiş. Tanınan süre içinde gelmeyen Ermenilerin malları Hazine'ye gitmiş. Böyle kanunlar çıkarılmış, uygulamalar yapılmış. Türkiye tedbirini hukuken almış. Zaten bu ülkede ölenlerden ziyade kalanlar üzerine konuşmak daha zor.

My transilation

Q:When the Armenians submit their claims what will they ask for compansation?
A:At the end Armenians who were leaving Turkey were not able to carry their property and wealth on their shoulders.But today we see new reports stating that'Goverment of those days was so well intentioned that,the properties of Armenians was taken down into account special commissions were formed.When the Armenians returned they were to be given back to them there are documents in regard to these it was said .Please show me 1 document like this 'To Derzor... To the family thats in the death area of Armenians Derzor,
Let them show a document showing that in compensation for what they left behind in Anatolia this was paid to them in Derzor.Let them say the documents are here either property(s) was taken back or such an amount was paid in compensation.The riches that wasn produced from a community that is thousands of years old that is.....
Q:Who did it benefit?
A:Whom it benefits....This is one of the main issues Turkey is not able to discuss.The subject of Armenian properties at this moment is really Turkeys most taboo most scary subject that is connected to the future.I think Turkey has safeguarded judicially against any Armenian claims of compansation in a timely manner.Because they brought out a law named 'emval-i metruke' they gave the Armenians a brief period of time 'Let them come back we will give their property back' was said.When the given time has expired these properties was taken over by the treasury.So these law and processes was in place .Thereby Turkey has safeguarded itself any future claims of property.
Anyhow its very difficult in this country to speak of whats left of the ones who died.

Brother dont understand this man from your ass (Kardesim adami gotunden anlamayiniz)

[Gavur]

Sons Of The Armenian Nation

AZG Armenian Daily #006, 18/01/2005

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SONS OF THE ARMENIAN NATION WHO "TURNED INTO" KURDS AND TURKS

It was a taboo till recently to write of the Armenians who were forcibly turned into Turks and Kurds during the Ottoman reign. Most of them, living today in Western Europe, Western Armenia and Cilicia (modern-day Turkey), are going through a revival of national identification. After the Armenians of Hamshen, those from Sassoon, Mush and Taron, who were forcibly converted into Islam, are especially easy to talk with about their past and present. They try to return to the bosom of their nation by overcoming their "guise", the names and surnames, and to fight for their rights and to recover the historic legacy of their forefathers massacred by the Turks.

One can meet those Armenians returning to their roots in Germany as well as in Armenia especially after the war in Iraq and the vents at the Turkish border. Some "Kurdish" Armenians fought in the ranks of the PKK (Kurdish Workers’ Party) and got disappointed after Ojalan’s capture and left for Germany where they could find a wide field for political and national activity. They settled in Frankfurt, Wiesbaden, Stuttgart, Mainz and elsewhere.

"I was born in Karmir Khach (Kzl Akhach) village of Taron. We shunned the Armenian Genocide as we accepted Islam feigningly and were Kurdish-speaking. My father and brother enrolled in the PKK to fight against Turkish fascism, they were imprisoned and tortured numerous times. I’ve been studying and working here in Germany for a long time and am in touch with the Armenian community and the progressive forces. But in Western Armenia, especially in originally Armenian Vardo town, which was stricken by an earthquake in 60s and where my relatives live, human rights violations are rampant", Simon Kostanian (Sardet Kosdun), who regained his Armenian identity today, tells.

Razmik Hakobian (Nureddin Yagub) from one of Cilicia villages was a PKK warrior but was arrested and jailed in one of Ankara’s horrific prisons. He is a writer and a film director who is planning to shoot a film about the life of Diaspora Armenians.

"My parents concealed our identity particularly because being an Armenian was an unforgettable affront in Adiamani where I am coming from. Despite this, many "Kurdish" and "Turkish" Armenians were called "gyavur". The film I am trying to shoot is about an Armenian outcast and also is an odyssey of a Western Armenians who survived the Genocide. I shall realize my plans if I find necessary support in Armenia and by the help of our confederates in Western Europe", Razmik tells.

The number of Armenians, who only now discover their identity, above all in Sassoon and Mush, amounts to thousands.

"There are around 1000 Armenians in Mush. The Turkish government has forgotten us for a while, as there are the Kurds to deal with. The sons of the Kurdish people say sorry for their fathers’ deeds who were killing Armenians together with the Turks", Armen from Mush says.

By Hamo Moskofian in Wiesbaden-Marseilles

[Gavur]

Turkish lawyer acknowledging Armenian genocide can be imprisoned 6.6.2005


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Turkish citizen and lawyer Madani Ayhan, Kurd in origin, was called to criminal responsibility for stating that Turks implemented a hostile policy towards the Armenians what resulted in the Armenian Genocide in 1915, 525 Azeri newspaper reports. He is the first to be accused of “propaganda” of the Armenian Genocide that is why the event caused serious resonance in Turkey.

The majority of the Turkish population consider Ayhan’s opinion to be “treason against Turkey and the whole Turk world.” However there are also supporters.

To remind, not long ago well-known Turkish writer Ohran Pamuk confirmed the fact of the Armenian Genocide arousing public discontent by that. However he was not called to account.

Turkish media report that Ayhan is accused in accord with Article 312 of the Turkish Criminal Code, which calls for imprisonment of individuals, who do deeds conflicting with the interests and principles of the state. The prosecutor claims three years of imprisonment for Ayhan, who also made statements against the integrity of Turkey and supported the idea of formation of Kurdish State.

To note, M. Ayhan made a statement on the Armenian Genocide during a formal event last November while the criminal case was initiated this February. In his speech he called himself a citizen of Kurdistan. “I am speaking on behalf of the Kurdish people and going to defend Kurds’ right of formation a separate state”, he stressed.

The representatives of the Turkish Office of Prosecutor General stated that words of the kind are enough for initiating a criminal case. According to Turkish media, besides calling himself a citizen of Kurdistan Ayhan also acknowledges the Armenian Genocide and says that the Armenian people, who struggled for Unification and Prosperity befell carnages in Ottoman Turkey in 1915.” “I bow down before the beautiful and oppressed Armenian people and join them in their grief”, Ayhan said. Today the Turkish citizen, who has become an enemy for Turkey, will stand trial. He can be sentenced to three years of imprisonment.

[Gavur]

But today we see new reports stating that'Goverment of those days was so well intentioned that,the properties of Armenians was taken down into account special commissions were formed.When the Armenians returned they were to be given back to them there are documents in regard to these it was said .Please show me 1 document like this 'To Derzor... To the family thats in the death area of Armenians Derzor,
Let them show a document showing that in compensation for what they left behind in Anatolia this was paid to them in Derzor.Let them say the documents are here either property(s) was taken back or such an amount was paid in compensation.



To me this says he does not believe this was genuine but its difficult for him to elobarate on this point living in Turkey and under pressure by your racist goverment do we need to spellit out for you?Someone farts and people like you think its a Turkish Love-Call

[Gavur]

And no ones throwing mud at you we're just holding a mirror to your faces so you can see through the mud thats allready there which can only be washed by divine intervention .And if you think this is all hot air you will be in for a suprise then you will hide your blinders out of embarrasment but people will still know that you are a donkey like your cousins the Azeri's.

[Gavur]

Hovik stated that he contacted Mr. Dink and he inturn told him thats not what he meant and i believe him .its all in the inerprtation of what Dink said thats the main problem here i think understanding the statments of Mr.dink.I also think that delibaretly misunderstanding someone and quoting their own conception of their statement is just as bad as lying .

[Gavur]

kemal

I wonder what made you so angry? Don't you find your comments a little bit racist

No because every race has their own brand of donkeys but you must see that your goverment is racist by their practices in the past even now .What makes me angry is no matter who when i feel someone is looking ae the same thing i'm looking at and they are not honest with them selfs what Dink is saying is he recently heard this law himself presumeing its true he is demanding one document that says this was done thats all.