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**Gavur** · 09-20-2005, 10:04 PM

ANKARA: What damage if Pope prays at Haghia Sophia?

Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:08:18 -0700 (PDT)

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H�rriyetim
20.09.2005
Vatican City's Istanbul representative: What damage if Pope prays for a
couple of seconds at Haghia Sophia?
Though still pending in its details, a potential visit to Turkey by Pope
Benedict XVI has stirred up controversy in Ankara as well as Vatican City
circles. At the center of concern for some Turkish officials is what would
happen if the Pope were to visit, and then pray, at Istanbul's Hagia Sophia.
Their trepidation is that if the Pope prays at the Hagia Sophia, he would,
however unwittingly, be undermining the historical structure's current
status as a museum.
This week's edition of the Turkish magazine Tempo carried an interview with
Vatican City's Istanbul representative, Georges Marovitch (*Note: aka as
Monsigneur Georges Marovitch), in which he answered questions on the
subject. In the interview, Marovitch underlines how exaggerated the fears of
some Turkish officials are, pointing to a past visit to the Hagia Sophia by
then Pope Paul VI. Said Marovitch, "At the time of Pope Paul XI's visit,
Ihsan Sabri Caglayangil was the Foreign Minister. They toured Istanbul
together. When he came to the Hagia Sophia, the Pope got down on his knees
and said "May God forgive us for the Catholic-Orthodox split of the 11
century, and for all the pain that has followed." The next day, this was
covered in all the newspapers. There was even questioning that took place in
the Parliament. Caglayangil defended it by saying "We have no mosques in
Europe. They give us their churches and say 'You may worship here.' So don't
make an issue our of this." If the Pope comes, of course it would not be
appropriate to have a mass in the Haghia Sophia; because it is a museum now.
But if he goes down on his knees for a couple of seconds while visiting it,
what could really happen?...."

**Gavur** · 09-23-2005, 10:03 PM

Pope gets Turkish invite

Posted on September 24, 2005

The Turkish government has invited Pope Benedict XVI to visit the country in 2006, a move which has been seen as a snub to the Turkish based Orthodox patriarch who wanted the pontiff to visit in November. Patriarch Bartholomew I's invitation set up a conflict with the Turkish government, which does not recognise the patriarch as spiritual leader of the world's 200 million Orthodox Christians and is reluctant to approve a visit that would highlight his global status. The Vatican had no immediate comment about the offer but have previously confirmed the Pope's wish to visit Turkey
totalcatholic.com

**Gavur** · 10-22-2005, 09:56 AM

A Sunni Muslim club?

Friday, October 21, 2005
Cengiz Aktar

A few weeks ago there was some heated discussion regarding the new pope's visit to Turkey and who should be inviting him. We did not have the opportunity of assessing the repercussions of this discussion due to the Oct. 3 start of Turkey's accession talks with the European Union.

The issue stems from Orthodox Patriarch Bartolomeos inviting the pope to Saint Andreas' celebrations.

Why did the patriarch invite the pope for Nov. 30? Is this the first time he has invited a pope? What kind of contact is there between the pope and the patriarch? What is the weight of the patriarch within the orthodox community? Columnists who have fueled the debate have opined on the subject without having any proper information about it.

Nov. 30 is important to the Christian world:

The Catholic and the Orthodox churches were separated in 1054. Inter-church dialogue was established in the latter 20th century for the first time since thanks to the efforts of the then-Patriarch Anthenagoras and the then-Pope Paul VI. The pope visited Istanbul on Nov. 30, 1967. Indeed, Nov. 30 is known to the Christian world as St. Andreas Day. Andreas was one of twelve apostles, brother of St. Pierre and builder of the Church of Constantinople in A.D. 31. Pope Paul visited the Hagia Sofia accompanied by then-Foreign Minister �a�layangil and prayed there.

Since then, Nov. 30 day is celebrated with every new pope together with the Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul. The previous pope, who passed away last April, also paid one of his first visits abroad in 1979 to Istanbul for this occasion. The new pope stuck to tradition and responded to the Nov. 30 invitation of the patriarch.

Let's turn now to Turkey. The government did not find the patriarch's invitation appropriate, so, as an in-between solution, the Turkish president invited the pope. This invitation was not for Nov. 30 and should be realized in 2006; it was interpreted by State Minister Mehmet Ali �ahin as President Necdet Sezer's own idea. Hence Turkey, by preventing two Christian faiths' common celebration, has obstructed the inter-church dialogue that is highly regarded in the Christian world.

Double standards:

Turkish diplomacy has been trying for years to obtain positive backing from the Vatican on Turkey's EU bid but did not make much progress. On the other hand, it is well known how much the new pope is negative regarding Turkey's EU membership. The new pope's comments on Turkey are not acceptable by any means. On the other hand, Turkey has Patriarch Bartolomeos, who is highly knowledgeable on the delicate balances within the Christian world and who has been one of the biggest supporters of Turkey's integration within the EU. Would there be any other suitable occasion for talking to the pope on these issues while he visits Turkey for the Nov. 30 celebrations?

The government acts like an bull in a china shop in such sensitive balancing acts. Their radical approach to non-Muslim foundations is of the same nature. Inappropriate decisions the government makes are harming the arguments we have been using for Turkey's EU bid.

We have been trying to explain that the EU has the chance to demonstrate to the whole world that the union is not a Christian club but a political one by integrating Turkey in face of those that have been rejecting the idea of Turkey's integration with the EU. We have been seeking solutions to the clash of civilizations within the framework of the United Nations, and with Spain, at the prime ministers' level. On every occasion we voice our desire of bringing together diverse religions and civilizations. However, in order to prove the credibility of our attempts we have to demonstrate that this country is not a Sunni Muslim club. This is not necessarily related to our EU relations but it rather has to do with the tolerant way of life that we have forgotten about after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Indeed, the same (Turkish) mentality that bitterly and rightly opposes the protests in Germany against the building of a mosque there has no tolerance when it comes to the repair of existing churches in Turkey.

Recently, on the occasion of the cancellation of an academic conference on Ottoman Armenians by a court order, the foreign affairs minister said that Turkey was �good at harming itself.� What he said is certainly valid for the pope's visit.

**Gavur** · 10-28-2005, 09:44 PM

Turkish nationalists protest against Greek Orthodox leader

Demonstration centers around patriarch's desire to use the title 'ecumenical'

By Agence France Presse (AFP)

Saturday, October 29, 2005

ISTANBUL: Turkish nationalists demonstrated Friday outside the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate here to protest against its desire to use the title "ecumenical," which is not recognized by Turkey, witnesses said. Waving Turkish flags and that of the extreme right-wing Nationalist Action Party, about 150 protesters laid a black wreath at the door of the patriarchate, on the European side of the city, with an inscription that said: "Off to Greece with the patriarchate."

"Patriarch! Do not lose your way, do not exhaust our

patience," the demonstrators chanted amid a heavy police presence before dispers-

ing peacefully.

The protest came a week after the head of the Orthodox Church, Patriarch Bartholomew I, told a conference in Istanbul that Turkey was preventing him from using his "ecumenical" title, which denotes leadership of 250 million Orthodox worshippers around the world.

Ankara says its legislation does not allow the patriarch to use the title and treats him as the spiritual leader of only some 2,000 Orthodox Greeks in Turkey.

The Orthodox patriarchate in Istanbul, which dates from the Byzantine Empire, is a regular target of demonstrations by Turkish nationalist movements that accuse the institution of seeking an independent, Vatican-like status and international support to extract concessions from Ankara. - AFP

**Gavur** · 11-29-2005, 07:36 PM

Struggle of Eastern Church a warning to the West

Week of November 30, 2005

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http://www.archden.org/dcr/news.php?e=256&s=4&a=5647

By John Gleason

The Greek Orthodox Church is facing a crisis; it is being choked off and unless Roman Catholics pay close attention, the same could happen to their Church in this country.

Rev. Luke Uhl, chancellor of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Colorado, was the featured speaker at the latest installment of the Fall Lecture Series. Father Uhl�s topic was the �Survival of Eastern Christian-ity: Why It Matters to Catholics.�

The Ecumenical Patriarchate faces extinction in the near future, according to Father Uhl, because of discrimination and harassment from the government of Turkey. In an area of the world that once boasted millions of Christians, today there are fewer than 2,000.

�In Turkey, the patriarch has no legal status,� Father Uhl said. �The Eastern Orthodox Church is a minority religion under the Ministry of Religions. Basically, it�s a piece of the government and has no legal standing.�

For many years, the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches have exchanged delegations of the feast days of the two churches. In 2004, Patriarch Bartholomew traveled to Rome to meet with Pope John Paul II but due to ill health, the pope was unable to travel to Constantinople. This year, as travel plans were being made for Benedict XVI, the pontiff was told by the Turkish government he would not be allowed into that country on the invite of Patriarch Bartholomew.

�He is viewed by the government as a private citizen,� Father Uhl said, �and not as the spiritual head of 300-million Orthodox Christians.�

The Eastern Church cannot train seminarians; clergy from abroad are admitted under restricted or tourist visas which limits their time in Turkey, and the government has foreclosed on church property as well as refusing construction and repair permits on church buildings.

�What�s happening to the Ecumenical Patriarchy is happening because it�s existing in a secularist Islamic state,� Father Uhl said, �and in Europe you have secularist humanists. What you�re seeing is a blueprint for the eradication of Roman Catholicism in Europe.�

The high note of this, according to Father Uhl, is the growing secularism that is influencing governments in Europe. Every country has a dominant religion and the dominant religion of secularism is humanism.
�We prefer, or develop, �a live and let live attitude,�� Father Uhl said. �But the problem is this attitude is man based, not God based.�

Citing examples of crucifix�s being removed from classrooms in Italy and French schoolchildren forbidden to wear neck chains with crosses, Father Uhl said that Europe was in the throes of a struggle that won�t end there. He pointed to the many attempts there have been to remove the Ten Commandments from public areas in this country.

�What we have to do is stay informed,� Father Uhl said. �The best way to do that is to first, forget USA Today and CNN and use the Internet � Zenit.org, Vatican.va, or the Catholic News Agency.�
Next, stay in touch with your congressman, he advised. Our government is well aware of what is going on in Turkey, he said. At recent confirmation hearings for Ross Wilson to become ambassador to Turkey, one of the first questions he was asked, Father Uhl noted, was what his plans were regarding the Ecumenical Patriarchy.

�I see this struggle of the Orthodox Church as a blueprint of what could happen,� Father Uhl said. �It�s a critical link in what�s going on in the world today. It�s worth paying attention to.�

**Gavur** · 12-01-2005, 07:48 PM

Vatican Says Pope Benedict Xvi Eager To Visit Greek- Orthodox Patriarchate As Soon As

Published: 11/30/2005
Latest wire from AFP

VATICAN - Vatican Press Bureau stated on Wednesday that Pope Benedict XVI wanted to visit the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul as soon as possible.
Releasing a statement about today's liturgy at the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate marking St. Andrew's Day, Vatican said that Pope Benedict XVI intended to be in Istanbul to attend the ceremony, and that he still wanted to visit the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul as soon as possible.

Referring to the scheduled meetings of Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity President Cardinal Walter Kasper with the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate officials, Vatican said that those talks were of great importance in regard to the Pope's visit to Istanbul.

Meanwhile, Pope Benedict XVI sent a message to Patriarch Bartholomew to mark St. Andrew's Day.

In his message, Pope Benedict XVI said: ''Ecumenical Patriarch, it is with great joy that I write to Your Holiness on the occasion of the Feast of Saint Andrew, apostle and brother of Saint Peter. I myself would have wished to be present to assure you personally of my affection for you in the Lord and to pray with you, I nevertheless convey my fervent hope for an even deeper communion which will overcome those obstacles remaining between us and enable us to celebrate together the Holy Eucharist, the one sacrifice of Christ for the life of the world.

Referring to the historic meeting between than Pope Paul VI and than Patriarch Athenagoras in Jerusalem in 1965, Pope Benedict XVI said, ''that momentous event became the basis of a renewed relationship marked by reciprocal respect and reconciliation. Indeed, it marked the beginning of a new season of ecclesial life, a season of dialogue, which has seen significant progress yet remains challenged to continue the rigorous pursuit of its much cherished goals. In this regard, it is a source of great satisfaction to me that after a pause of some years our theological dialogue begins once again.''

Pope Benedict XVI also expressed his satisfaction that the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church would resume its works again.

The Commission, which was established in 1979 to discuss issues of theology that separate the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, held its last meeting in Baltimore, the United States, in 2000. After Orthodox clerics accused Catholic clerics of expansionism, joints works of the Commission were interrupted.

The coordination committee is expected to convene in Rome on December 13th and 16th to re-activate the Joint International Commission for Theological Dialogue.

Meanwhile, sources said that it was thought-provoking that although the Pope expressed his wish to visit the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul, he did not refer to his planned visit to Ankara in his message.

Earlier this year, Pope Benedict XVI expressed his wish to attend the St Andrew's Day at the Greek-Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul.

After Vatican announced that they expected a formal invitation from the Turkish authorities to visit Turkey, President Ahmet Necdet Sezer officially invited the Pope to visit Turkey in 2006. However, President Sezer said in his letter that they expected the Pope in Turkey not this year, but in 2006.

Diplomatic sources described President Sezer's invitation for 2006 instead of 2005 as a reaction to the Greek-Orthodox Patriachate's inviting the Pope in 2005 without consulting with Ankara.

**Gavur** · 12-06-2005, 07:22 PM

US: Greek Orthodox Patriarch is Ecumenical

By Cihan News Agency
Published: Tuesday, December 06, 2005
zaman.com

The US administration declared on Monday they consider the Greek Fener Orthodox Patriarchate to be �ecumenical� and see Fener Patriarch Bartholomew as a religious leader of global standing.

The US Department of State Spokesman Sean Mccormack said in a statement that the US took very seriously the issue of religious freedom in Turkey.

**Gavur** · 02-23-2006, 02:37 PM

Vatican to Muslims: Practice What You Preach

By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor

PARIS -- After backing calls by Muslims for respect for their religion in the Mohammad cartoons row, the Vatican is now urging Islamic countries to reciprocate by showing more tolerance toward their Christian minorities.

Roman Catholic leaders at first said Muslims were right to be outraged when Western newspapers reprinted Danish caricatures of the Prophet, including one with a bomb in his turban. Most Muslims consider any images of Mohammad to be blasphemous.

After criticizing both the cartoons and the violent protests in Muslim countries that followed, the Vatican this week linked the issue to its long-standing concern that the rights of other faiths are limited, sometimes severely, in Muslim countries.

Vatican prelates have been concerned by recent killings of two Catholic priests in Turkey and Nigeria. Turkish media linked the death there to the cartoons row. At least 146 Christians and Muslims have died in five days of religious riots in Nigeria.

"If we tell our people they have no right to offend, we have to tell the others they have no right to destroy us," Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican's Secretary of State (prime minister), told journalists in Rome.

"We must always stress our demand for reciprocity in political contacts with authorities in Islamic countries and, even more, in cultural contacts," Foreign Minister Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo told the daily Corriere della Sera.

Reciprocity -- allowing Christian minorities the same rights as Muslims generally have in Western countries, such as building houses of worship or practicing religion freely -- is at the heart of Vatican diplomacy toward Muslim states.

Vatican diplomats argue that limits on Christians in some Islamic countries are far harsher than restrictions in the West that Muslims decry, such as France's ban on headscarves in state schools.

Saudi Arabia bans all public expression of any non-Muslim religion and sometimes arrests Christians even for worshipping privately. Pakistan allows churches to operate but its Islamic laws effectively deprive Christians of many rights.

Both countries are often criticized at the United Nations Human Rights Commission for violating religious freedoms.

"ENOUGH TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK"

Pope Benedict signaled his concern on Monday when he told the new Moroccan ambassador to the Vatican that peace can only be assured by "respect for the religious convictions and practices of others, in a reciprocal way in all societies."

He mentioned no countries by name. Morocco is tolerant of other religions, but like all Muslim countries frowns on conversion from Islam to another faith.

Iraqi Christians say they were well treated under Saddam Hussein's secular policies, but believers have been killed, churches burned and women forced to wear Muslim garb since Islamic groups gained sway after the U.S.-led invasion in 2003.

Christians make up only a tiny fraction of the population in most Muslim countries. War and political pressure in recent decades have forced many to emigrate from Middle Eastern communities dating back to just after the time of Jesus.

As often happens at the Vatican, lower-level officials have been more outspoken than the Pope and his main aides.

"Enough now with this turning the other cheek! It's our duty to protect ourselves," Monsignor Velasio De Paolis, secretary of the Vatican's supreme court, thundered in the daily La Stampa. Jesus told his followers to "turn the other cheek" when struck.

"The West has had relations with the Arab countries for half a century, mostly for oil, and has not been able to get the slightest concession on human rights," he said.

Bishop Rino Fisichella, head of one of the Roman universities that train young priests from around the world, told Corriere della Sera the Vatican should speak out more.

"Let's drop this diplomatic silence," said the rector of the Pontifical Lateran University. "We should put pressure on international organizations to make the societies and states in majority Muslim countries face up to their responsibilities."

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**1.5 million** · 02-23-2006, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Gavur

Recently, on the occasion of the cancellation of an academic conference on Ottoman Armenians by a court order, the foreign affairs minister said that Turkey was �good at harming itself.� What he said is certainly valid for the pope's visit.

This was going to be my comment...glad to see that I can agree with a Turkish Foreign Affairs Minister on at least one count...

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