Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Jews and the Armenian Genocide

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jews and the Armenian Genocide

    The Jewish Advocate
    Thursday December 29 2005
    Editorial
    Teaching genocide

    Last week, members of the Armenian Assembly of America filed to
    intervene in a lawsuit brought earlier this year by the Assembly of
    Turkish American Associations against the state's Department of
    Education for teaching in its history curriculum "one side" on the
    Armenian genocide in Turkey in 1915.

    Lawyers for the Turkish group have argued that teaching both sides is a
    matter of academic freedom and freedom of speech.

    These are specious arguments.

    We in the Jewish community should be especially concerned with attempts
    to deny accounts of historical atrocities that are well documented.

    Historians estimate that more than 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey were
    killed in 1915 as part of a genocidal campaign, recognition of which has
    long been championed by Holocaust survivor and Boston University
    professor Elie Wiesel.

    Under pressure from the European Union and international historians, the
    Turkish government has been urged to reconsider its official account of
    the episode: that there never was a systematic campaign to kill
    Armenians, and the deaths that occurred were the result of inter-ethnic
    strife, disease and famine during the turmoil of World War I.

    Teaching about genocide is vital to preventing its reoccurrence. The
    Armenian genocide deserves a place alongside the Holocaust and other
    historical atrocities in the curriculums of our students.

    The lawsuit by the Assembly of Turkish American Associations threatens
    to open the door to revisionist historians. Our community has a special
    stake in making sure that denial of genocide is not given a voice in our
    public schools. Any genocide - whether it be the Holocaust, Darfur or
    the Armenian genocide - deserves to be recorded and taught, not only for
    the memory of all the victims who suffered, but for our children's
    future. Only through education and remembrance can we even attempt to
    stem the tide of hatred and violence.


    671

  • #2
    Myth: Elie Wiesel wants to help all humanity.

    Genocide


    Myth: Elie Wiesel wants to help all humanity.

    While Wiesel's documentation of the Nazi Holocaust has earned him international acclamation and a Nobel Peace Prize, he is not always predisposed to yield the genocide victim's spotlight.

    In 1982, a conference on genocide was held in Israel with Wiesel scheduled to be honorary chairman, but the situation became complicated when the Armenians wanted in. Here's how Noam Chomsky told the story in Chronicles of Dissent (Monroe, ME: Common Courage Press, 1992):

    "The Israeli government put pressure upon [Wiesel] to drop the Armenian genocide. They allowed the others, but not the Armenian one. He was pressured by the government to withdraw, and being a loyal commissar as he is, he withdrew . . . because the Israeli government had said they didn't want Armenian genocide brought up."

    Wiesel went even further, calling up noted Israeli Holocaust historian, Yehuda Bauer, and pleading with him to also boycott the conference. "That gives an indication of the extent to which people like Elie Wiesel were carrying out their usual function of serving Israeli state interests," Chomsky explains, "even to the extent of denying a holocaust, which he regularly does."

    Why not welcome the Armenians, you're perhaps wondering? Chalk it up to two conspicuous factors: the need to monopolize the Holocaust image and the geopolitical reality that Turkey (the nation responsible for the Armenian genocide‹no dearth of irony here) is a rare and much-needed Muslim ally for Israel.

    These three humans (and hundreds like them) have become little more than comic-book superheroes. However, in "real life", in the world we all actually live in, we cannot expect one person to change anything in any significant manner and we can't wait for a singular individual to lead the way.

    In real life, there are no heroes.
    Just people.
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

    Comment


    • #3
      Historian: Removing Anti-revisionist Laws Is Arrogant

      By Shirli Sitbon in Paris Updated: 24/Jan/2006 16:45

      European Jewish Press, Belgium
      Jan 24 2006

      Historian denounces legal row in France

      French historian and genocide specialist Yves Ternon tells EJP why
      over 400 historians are demanding the removal of anti-revisionist laws.

      EJP: Over 400 historians have signed a petition demanding the removal
      of four "historical laws". One of these texts, voted on February
      2005, includes a controversial article on the "positive aspect
      of colonialism", but the other three prohibit genocide denial and
      discrimination. Why would historians want these anti-revisionist laws
      to disappear?

      Yves Ternon (YT): They are putting together three essential laws and
      a fourth one which is completely incoherent. I think their initiative
      is wrong and that's why I've signed a second petition denouncing it.

      Before I explain their motives let's go over the laws we're talking
      about.

      The most recent law of the three is the Taubira law* on slavery. It
      asks school teachers to mention the slave trade in their programmes.

      However, the law only asks them to teach about slavery after the
      15th century, even though it existed before that period. I think this
      limitation in time is neither justified nor normal. There shouldn't
      be a distinction in periods. All of the slavery phenomenon ought to
      be studied.

      The second law concerns the Armenian genocide. It simply says that
      France recognises the genocide. The law involves no sanctions against
      revisionists.

      Finally, the Gayssot law prohibits discrimination and revisionism. It
      can lead to sanctions. Genocide denial can also be penalised by a
      prior legislation, article 1882 from the Penal code, which sanctions
      those who offend victims.

      All three laws are essential. There is no reason to examine their
      removal.

      The fourth law, from February 2005, is very different. It asks teachers
      to talk about the "positive aspect" of colonialism. I think this law
      makes no sense and is incoherent. It does not justify the removal of
      the three other laws.

      EJP: Why do you think these respected historians made their request?

      YT: They consider that only they are entitled to give their opinion
      on history. There is arrogance on the behalf of university professors
      who consider they belong to a different cast and that politicians and
      legislators can't express themselves on these matters. They claim that
      these laws are interfering with their research, but that's wrong. No
      historian has ever been penalised by these three laws. No historian
      has ever been threatened in his research work.

      Some historians are just settling scores with legislators who dared
      to intervene in the past on historic issues. They have been marked
      by the Bernard Lewis affair.

      Mr. Lewis was condemned by a civil court because he denied the murder
      of Armenians was a genocide. The penal code article that sanctions
      those who offend victims made it possible to condemn him.

      EJP: If prior laws enable to penalise revisionists, what is the use
      of the three laws that you are defending?

      YT: They are useful and have a great significance for various
      communities. The Gayssot law against revisionism and racist acts was
      voted in 1990 after the Jewish cemetery of Carpentras was vandalised.

      The law made it easier to penalise the perpetrators of racist acts
      and revisionists.

      The law recognising the Armenian genocide is a part of a wider
      initiative launched by the Armenian community across the world. Its
      aim is to fight Turkish revisionism. The Taubira law was essential
      for the Caribbean community who insisted on the importance of teaching
      about slavery in school...

      EJP: This protest is getting public attention, but is it really an
      important movement?

      YT: Yes, this movement is very significant among historians. The 19
      historians who launched the petition represent hundreds of others.

      But others disagree. The second petition which denounces the first
      was approved by historians who specialise in genocide studies.

      There is a friction between those who do research on crimes against
      humanity and other historians. Genocide studies are profoundly affected
      by revisionism, which can be considered as a virus in research on
      mass crimes. It should be considered as a legal offence.

      EJP: Will this protest made by prestigious historians have an effect
      on the current legislation?

      YT: I don't think so. This protest won't get the results it's
      seeking. Maybe the laws will be reformulated but they won't be
      annulled. These texts are not well formulated and can be improved.

      But they won't disappear. Their main quality is their mere existence.

      I don't think the legislators will fold to the historians' demands.

      They failed to do so in previous cases. They only obtained criticism.

      EJP: On the one hand there are those who say these laws are
      excessive and on the other there are some controversial, some say
      anti-Semitic, figures like the comic Dieudonne that accuse France
      of over-commemorating the Holocaust. Do you think that numerous
      commemorations encourage anti-Semitism in certain communities?

      YT: You could always imagine such schemes. But if you consider the
      Armenian community there is absolutely no such reaction. On the
      contrary, the Armenian and the Jewish communities see eye to eye in
      the memorial policies. The same thing can be said about the Rwandan
      community that is very close to the two others. There is no hostility
      between the three communities.

      We have seen more recently exaggerations and exuberance that
      resulted from comparisons between the Shoah and much older events
      such as the massacres in the region of Vendee, or Napoleon's crimes,
      mainly slavery. There is a certain unease that must be addressed
      and explained. You can't deny that such excessive ideas can lead
      to anti-Semitism.

      Yves Ternon will soon participate in the following conferences: -
      "Amnesia International" organised in Marseille by the Armenian
      community in March 2006 - A seminar on how to prevent genocide,
      organised in Lyon in April 2006 *Taubira law: voted on May 21st 2001
      Law recognising the Armenian genocide: January 29, 2001 Gayssot law:
      voted on July 13 1990.

      "All truth passes through three stages:
      First, it is ridiculed;
      Second, it is violently opposed; and
      Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

      Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

      Comment

      Working...
      X