Excellent Dutch Article on the "debate"

[Joseph]

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/gen070424mc

Armenian genocide debate

by Johan Huizinga

24-04-2007



"Let's unearth the truth about what happened in 1915 together". That was the headline of a page-wide advertisement from the Turkish government in some international newspapers. Ankara hopes to win public support over the issue of the Armenian genocide in 1915.
The proposal to let Armenian and Turkish historians investigate the matter together, however, is not new and neither is the support from Washington for this idea. But the timing of the adverstisment, just before the annual commemoration of the Armenian Genocide, was very clever.

In the advertisement, Ankara invites Armenia to establish a joint commission of historians to investigate the 1915 killings of thousands of Armenians in the Turkish Ottoman Empire. Estimates range from 800,000 to 1.2 million Armenians who have died between 1915 and 1917 in the mass killings and deportation of Armenians. However, for mainly nationalistic reasons, Ankara still refuses to acknowledge that what happened was genocide, the planned extermination of an ethnic group.

Thorny issue
The genocide denial remains a thorny issue in Turkish relations not only with Armenia, but with the US, the EU and several European countries as well. That explains the advertisement, which also quotes US President George W Bush and his Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice who are backing the proposal. But according to Professor Eric Jan Zurcher, Turkey expert at Leiden University, neither the proposal, nor the American support is new.

The proposal is a few years old and has been categorically rejected by the Armenian government. The Armenians claim no extra research is needed to establish the historical facts. The Americans support the Turkish proposal since they are bound by the need to maintain good relations with Turkey and the demands from Armenian pressure groups. So in the end, the advertisement very much looks like a publicity stunt to win time for Turkey.


Fruitless debates
And the chances of any joint commission of historians reaching the same conclusions are still very small, fears Mr Zurcher. Historians appointed by the Armenian and Turkish governments will first of all be selected for their loyalty to the national points of view on this issue. So the attempt to find a common conclusion will most likely end up in some fruitless debates.

Then there remains another possible pitfall, warns Professor Zurcher. In the initial stages, Ankara hinted that such a joint commission of historians would get exclusive rights on the issue.

That could bar independent historians from using Turkish archives, for instance and it would possibly silence the debate on the Armenian Genocide for the time being which might be exactly what the Turks are after.

This leaves the Armenians, demonstrating at the Turkish embassy in The Hague, with their clear demands: a penalty on denial of the Armenian Genocide and no Turkish EU-membership without acknowledging the genocide by Ankara. Whether the Armenians will have it their way remains very doubtful however. Although more than 90 years have passed since the atrocities took place, the discussion is a long way from reaching a conclusion

[Joseph]

If you open the url, you can listen to what Zurcher has to say about the "debate".

[Hovik]

Estimates range from 800,000 to 1.2 million Armenians who have died between 1915 and 1917 in the mass killings and deportation of Armenians.

Ummm, where did this idiot get the "range" of dead from? And who said the genocide only took place between 1915 and 1917?

Someone needs to do a little homework before writing their article...

[asalafedayiwar]

Indeed an excellent article. He made some very strong points.

Another thing that really bothers me is how they are going to choose the 'winner' of the debate. Who will judge these historians and the points they make? Americans? Europeans? who?

And if Turkey looses the debate, what's gonna happen next? Are they going to accept the fact of the Armenian Genocide or are they going to continue the denial by refusing to accept the debate's results? I am more than sure that if they loose the debate and, it is the most likely outcome given that the debate will be fair, I am more than sure they will start attacking people (or whoever it might be) who made the decision regarding the debate's winner. The whole situation around this debate seems to be absurd.
I agree, that Turkey is just trying to win more time and Americans are doing their best to support their ally.

[asalafedayiwar]

Ummm, where did this idiot get the "range" of dead from? And who said the genocide only took place between 1915 and 1917?

Someone needs to do a little homework before writing their article...

I absolutely agree with you. I really don't understand why people only talk about the period starting from 1915. It is a fact that mass killings of Armenians started from the second half of the 19th century and, according to the literature i read, I can only conclude that the death poll should be around 2 million people, if not more.

Though, as I said, I agree with some of his points regarding the debate issue.

[Joseph]

Ummm, where did this idiot get the "range" of dead from? And who said the genocide only took place between 1915 and 1917?

Someone needs to do a little homework before writing their article...

The details are incorrect but his basic synopsis, that the debate is futile and the Genocide occured is spot on.

I have read Erik Zurcher and he's one of the few Turcophiles to admit the Genocide and it has effected his career and accesibility to the Ottoman archives ever since he did so.

[Turkish Pride]

I agree, that Turkey is just trying to win more time and Americans are doing their best to support their ally.

The American and Turkish alliance is nearly dead.

[asalafedayiwar]

The American and Turkish alliance is nearly dead.

I agree that the alliance is nearly dead, but at the same time I doubt that it will die. America needs Turkey and Turkey needs America. When Congressman Adam Schiff was questioning Condoleezza Rice regarding the State Department's efforts to defeat legislation
recognizing the Armenian Genocide , it was obvious that the US doesn't want to spoil their relations with Turkey, despite the disagreements they may have. Still, you never know.

[Joseph]

The American and Turkish alliance is nearly dead.

Good riddance!

[bell-the-cat]

Ummm, where did this idiot get the "range" of dead from? And who said the genocide only took place between 1915 and 1917?

Someone needs to do a little homework before writing their article...

He is a journalist - so what do you expect. Journalists don't do "homework", they can't handle anything beyond sound-bite simplifications, and they think they are clever by automatically assuming no-one ever says the whole truth. A journalist will write "some mathematicians have alleged that two plus two is equal to between three and five".