Genocide Question

[CanadaHye]

Parev to all,

I was recently made aware of this site, and must say that I am impressed with some of the informed content. I have read a great deal of posts, and I have since added you to my favourites list.

I do have a several questions regarding the genocide, and I would appreciate it if someone can respond.

1) I have read several posts by Armenians supporting the Kurds fight for an independant Kurdistan. Aside from a political slap in Turkey's face, I for one, am not supportive of this, nor do I care for their plight. My main reasoning is that the Kurds participated in annihilating my race during the 1915 genocide. Am I wrong?

2) As disgusting as Bush's recent genocide denial was, I do understand why (from a strategic ally positioning, politicking, etc.). What I do not understand, and I am beyond words is Israel's ongoing support for Turkey's right for denial. This coming from a nation who's own race suffered and underwent a genocide of its own. Can someone please explain the motive/strategy behind this?

Thank you.

[bell-the-cat]

Parev to all,

I was recently made aware of this site, and must say that I am impressed with some of the informed content. I have read a great deal of posts, and I have since added you to my favourites list.

I do have a several questions regarding the genocide, and I would appreciate it if someone can respond.

1) I have read several posts by Armenians supporting the Kurds fight for an independant Kurdistan. Aside from a political slap in Turkey's face, I for one, am not supportive of this, nor do I care for their plight. My main reasoning is that the Kurds participated in annihilating my race during the 1915 genocide. Am I wrong?

2) As disgusting as Bush's recent genocide denial was, I do understand why (from a strategic ally positioning, politicking, etc.). What I do not understand, and I am beyond words is Israel's ongoing support for Turkey's right for denial. This coming from a nation who's own race suffered and underwent a genocide of its own. Can someone please explain the motive/strategy behind this?

Thank you.

Israel didn't suffer a genocide. The Holocaust created Israel.

[CanadaHye]

Israel didn't suffer a genocide. The Holocaust created Israel.

I did not say Israel suffered a holocaust (aka genocide), but it's race (the Jews) certainly did in Europe.

[Nick_A]

Hi CH

I've thought a lot on this myself and I think that Yair Auron makes some valid points in explanation

http://www.isg-iags.org/oldsite/newsletters/26/morgenth.html

The ending of Yair Auron's book generates the title. It is not so much, he concludes, the "banality of evil" (Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem, 1964) that accounts for the success of genocide, but the "banality of indifference." "The reaction of the multitudes, those located in the space between the immolator and the victims, is characterized by indifference, conformity, and opportunism. The Jews, too, in the circumstances of time and place, do not go beyond this banality, with several exceptions. In Israeli society, there are many people who would prefer not to know about the genocide of the Armenians and the genocide of the Gypsies...In Israeli historical consciousness, the Holocaust plays a central role--becoming increasingly stronger over the years. This consciousness stresses the singularity of the Holocaust. It contains, in my opinion, an extreme and almost utter focus on the Jews as victims, and a disregard--consciously or not, intentionally or not--of acts of genocide that have taken place in the twentieth century, among them the murder of the Armenians and the extermination of the Gypsies" (pp. 372-373).

If the tendency over times is for genocides to be "characterized by indifference, conformity, and opportunism." then the true vile nature of genocides is watered down and rationalized for either political and/or selfish purpose assuring their recurrence.

I cannot blame the jews for wanting to keep the Holocaust separate if this is our collective attitude towards genocide. What should happen is for people to unify in opposition to all genocides by admitting them for what they are at the sacrifice of political and selfish motivation if "never Again" is to have any real meaning. My gut feeling is that it cannot happen. We lack both the courage and conscience for it This indifference to the Armenian genocide is a perfect example

[Falc]

Reread what Cat said. It's spot-on.

Then consider this: The U.S. gives Israel some 12 BILLION USD a year in "humanitarian aid" and military technology (read Bribes/base rentals). That's being given to a people who have had cell phones at 2 cents a minute for over a decade, and doesn't need our money.

This is also given to a people who use it to occupy their neighbor. I see Palestine as a closer parallel to Armenia, actually. That may explain a great deal.

[1.5 million]

I don't begrudge the jews Isreal per se. What concerns me is many of them apparently haven't learned a fundemental lesson of their past - concerning treatment of others (minorities who are different from you) within your control/power. Of all people - who have been treated as they have been through the centuries you would think that they would have more compassion when they now find their positions reversed.

As for all of the aid - etc - Isreal is in a very tough neighborhood - surounded by nations and people that often wish it great ill. Isreal is also a bastion of western modernity in the Middle East - under the right circumstances (externally and self-created) it could become a model for what might be possible...unfortunatly the (religious) fanatics rule they day (on all sides) and I fear it will take another holocaust (in this case I mean a nuke in Tel Aviv or something similar) for (normal) folks to come to their senses and say "enough is enough" - peace, security and prosperity cannot exist with daggers drawn and voices spewing only hatred.