Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu

[Joseph]

"Official people do not like the Armenians, because in their hearts they ask: Why have the Armenian people throughout one thousand years not become Muslims and have resisted Turkification? "

AN INTERVIEW WITH Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu of Istanbul

By Appo Jabarian
Executive Publisher/Managing Editor
USA Armenian Life Magazine

During the week end of May 17-21, the courageous "Baadvelee" (Reverend) Krikor Aghabaloghlu, the pastor of the Gedik ***** Armenian Evangelical Church in Istanbul, visited the Armenian American community in San Francisco.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu was invited by Rev. Nerses Balabanian, the pastor of the Calvary Armenian (Evangelical) Congregational Church of San Francisco.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu delivered enlightening and insightful remarks during the Saturday evening banquet. The banquet took place on May 19, at the jam-packed hall of the church. His speech was interrupted by thunderous applause and at times with
standing ovations. Rev. Aghabaloghlu also delivered the Sunday sermon in the church, filled to near
capacity.

Rev. Aghabaloghlu gave an interview to USA Armenian Life Magazine on Sunday just before his departure to New Jersey. The following is the first part of the interview: (The second and final part will be published next week.)

USA Armenian Life: "Baadvelee" Welcome to the USA. What is the primary purpose of your visit to the United States?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Thank you. The Armenian (Evangelical) Brotherhood church in New Jersey has invited me to deliver my message to the community. There is a chapter in the Holy Bible where Isaac's children had dispersed. So Isaac calls upon his youngest son Joseph to go see what happened to "your brothers, and what they are up to? Bring me their news."

So, I think, God has prepared me and said: "Son, I am sending you to go see your dispersed brothers. See how they are living. What are they up to, and encourage them. Talk to them. Preach to them and encourage them." I thank God for that. For I have many brothers who are inviting me to come and see them. On Monday, I will go to New Jersey. I will stay there for one week and I will preach to the Armenian people.

Once in a while, invitations arrive, and I don't turn them down, because I am God's and the Armenian people's servant. What is the duty of the servant? If the Lord calls, the servant goes. Our Lord has called me too. So, I shall go and serve Him and my brothers.

USA Armenian Life: You are famous around the world for being a courageous Armenian spiritual leader in Turkey, who without any fear states in what is now called Turkey, that today's Turkey was founded on the ashes of Western Armenia. During past direct broadcasts on Turkish national television, you have intrepidly told the Turks directly: "Enough with your denialism of the facts of the Armenian Genocide!" Where does the power for such courage come from?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: For one thing, I was born in Anatolia and I have experienced many hardships. Because...

USA Armenian Life: By Anatolia, you mean Western Armenia?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Let's say Western Armenia. Because, we are used to and are taught to refer to Western Armenia as 'Anatolia.' Now, Western... let's say historic Armenia. Because, where I was brought up, it's not an easy thing to stay Armenian and to live as a Christian. I have experienced too many hardships and persecutions. I have seen many acts of ill treatment. You do good deeds but you are "remunerated" by bad deeds. Yes!

There are very good people who do good deeds and you become joyful and you say that "yes you understand that this is human." The human being shall be like that. But if you do good deeds and you get maltreatments in return, you do not forget.

... In Turkey there are a few very powerful people who are like that. There are families. And there are government officials who do not like the Armenians. Because the following lies in their hearts: "Why has the Armenian people throughout one thousand years [Editor- Since 1071 AD when the Turks first invaded Armenia] live with us and have not become Muslim and were not Turkified?" They cannot accept that. That's why they say: "If they live in Turkey, they should have become Muslim and been Turkified." If you say, "I'm Armenian," you touch the eye like a thorn or a needle. He becomes unsettled. Whether you do something or not, the man is like that. His nature is like that. Oh! You shall be tortured. You shall loose your homeland. You shall loose your schools; and your homes will be taken away. Your churches shall be confiscated. Your people shall decrease [Ed-in numbers]. And then they will curse at you. You shall listen. And after all that they shall tell you that
"you're guilty!"

For how long, for how long, one can keep quiet? I don't know. This is my nature since my childhood. But I could not keep my mouth shut. My father also, wherever he used to go, he would say: "I'm Armenian and Christian."

I was very little and I used to say: "Hayrig (father) why are you saying: "I'm Armenian and Christian? People are not asking a question like that!" He used to say: "My child when you grow up, you'll understand!" When I grew up I began to understand. I understood that to be Armenian and to be Christian in Anatolia was a hard thing to do. They always speak against your religion; against your nation; your family, your blood. You know, they always talk!"

I have been a teacher, history teacher. I have encountered many hardships in Western Armenia. And now God has called me and I have recognized God's power and have acquired that power. And now that power brings through my heart such an empowerment that you can't express with words. It's such a great power.

Jesus said: "The Holy Spirit will remain inside you and you shall acquire power."

While acquiring that power, Jesus said: "Now, I am parting to be crucified." His pupils said: "What are You saying. They will kill you." Jesus replied: "I have come for that moment. If dying is needed, I'll go and die." Later, the pupils said: "OK we also will go and die." If you have that kind of love, you'll learn from Christ!

For Jesus, dying is nothing. It was a gain. Later, you too say, for the truth, for the right, for my nation, dying is a game. If need be, I can die. One and one half million [Armenians] have been sacrificed. The odor of their blood permeates my nose. I remember, because I was a child. During my childhood, the elders used to narrate how their fathers and mothers were massacred. They were crying as they were telling. As a child, I used to hear and hear, and hear these things.

Later, again we were subjected to ill treatment during the republic era. Up to now, the government has not changed. It came up with laws in 1941-42. It took away all the remaining riches from the Armenians. It did the same thing in 1955.

USA Armenian Life: Are you referring to "Varlic vergise" (Possession taxes)?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: They did it against the Greeks in 1955. But also they did it once more, against the Armenians.

Later, 1974 was unforgettable. It was impossible! I can't come up with a name for it, even if it needs to be defined. I can't name it. It was inconceivable. If you claim that it was a law, it did not fit. Then, the government says: "The churches becoming rich hurts the government." And it confiscates all the properties from the churches.

Is this possible? So, the church initiated a lawsuit insisting that it had purchased these properties with money, therefore, it said: 'Compensate us.' The government replied: "There is neither any money, nor any buildings for you."

It's impossible.

We have spoken out. Europe did not understand it. It is only now that Europe has awakened.

But the government will do bad deeds against the church and the Armenian people, then shamelessly it will write in schoolbooks that the "Armenians have back-stabbed us." How did they backstab you?

Now the era of the republic is laid open in front of us, isn't it?

Can our government people say: "during the days of the republic, the Armenian people [Ed- in Turkey] have done this one bad deed???" Have you heard that they have?

USA Armenian Life: No!

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Can anybody prove that? Good! In 1915 one could claim that the Armenians massacred the Turks. Or you can claim that the Armenians sided with the Russians.

USA Armenian Life: They are coming up with pretexts.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Now what? This proves one thing: That is the habit of the Turkish government. It always likes to confiscate. Look. The people's heart is good. The majority of the Turkish people are good. They like the Armenian people. They know the Armenians. But what happens? The government people, the official people or the military people always
talk, talk, talk and by talking and talking, they misguide the people. They fill the people's hearts with bad stuff, you know my brother. So what will happen to them? Oh, they will say: "our professors are advising as such. Undoubtedly they are right, because they are our professors."

USA Armenian Life: In your remarks yesterday, you clearly defined the confiscations from the Armenians during the 50's and the 70's as economic genocide...

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, yes! I'll arrive to that. Yes, in my opinion, that is economic genocide. There is no other definition.

You can't define it any other way. They always take and take. Then they shamelessly say: "we have taken nothing. We don't say anything and you, (Armenians), are lying." How do we lie? Right then and there, if you are a believer, if you recognize Christ, His courage permeates you. And you say: "If sacrificing is needed I can not abstain from speaking out."

When I entered into the church and became aware of these problems, I said to myself: "This is indigestible! I can't digest it and will speak out. And I began to speak out."

It is for that reason that I wish to tell the majority of the Armenian people who live in Europe and America that they don't know the truth about the situation of the Armenian people in Turkey. Many among these people will tell you: "we're doing well. We're obedient, because, from time to time, they show individuals on TV."

Where do they find them? I don't know! The name sounds Armenian. But the heart is not Armenian. They say: "we're obedient and well. There's nothing going on here." Oh man! What kind of Armenian are you?

USA Armenian Life: Totally enslaved!

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: How can you be an Armenian! How blind are you that you can't see. Or how cowardly are you that you can't speak out!

I can't comprehend that an Armenian can be this cowardly and say: "We're doing well."

Well it shall be good. It's my homeland. I've not come from the outside. I'm not a beggar. I'm not asking for mercy from the Turkish nation by saying: "Please, I have no place to go to, no home to dwell in. I have no homeland. Accept me in. Let me live here."

I am not like that. Western Armenia is my motherland. I've been living there since four thousand years and if money is needed to be paid I'll pay taxes. Is there a need to serve in the Army? I'll do that as well. I'm not a beggar. Yes, I'll live well. Why not? Why not? If others live well, we also will live well in our ancestral lands. ...

I'm very joyful that the churches are open. What else? Can you teach Armenian history in your schools?

Now the Turkish people in Europe are erecting mosques. Is that not true? Europe is Christian. She says: "You're Muslim. Come and open your mosque. Open your school and at the same time, during your holidays, take your Turkish flag and walk in the streets. Can't they do it? They can! Don't they?

USA Armenian Life: They have freedom.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Aha! Now, can you do it?

USA Armenian Life: In Turkey?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: For once, can you, as Armenian in Turkey...

USA Armenian Life: And as an indigenous people...

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, can you take one Armenian flag and observe a holiday? Can you do it? What kind of freedom is that? How free are we? Can you teach your own children in the Armenian school the Armenian history?

In all the schools, the vice-principle must be a Turk, whose job is to keep an eye on your activities. Now are you free? How free are you? You like to move the church from there, because the number of your people has dwindled here. Now there are other neighborhoods. Can you relocate your church and build a new church? Can you build? You can't build! According to the new law of two years ago, when Turkey was trying to enter the European Union, "Yes, from now on, the churches can be repaired. The government people are respecting to us in every way" Can you repair your church as result of this new law?

But the Turkish nation in Europe is so comfortable. I am happy for them, they deserve to be comfortable. Why not? But I want to do the same thing here in Turkey. But I can't do it. I can't!

USA Armenian Life: Meaning that in emulation of whatever freedom the Turkish people are experiencing here in the free world, the Armenians are not able to do the same in their own ancestral lands.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, in their ancestral homeland!

[Joseph]

ASTOR SHOCKS TURKISH TV VIEWERS BY BOLD REMARKS ON GENOCIDE
(c) By Harut Sassounian Publisher, The California Courier
March, 2005
Even though the Turks are supposed to be on their best behavior in order to convince the Europeans that they are civilized enough to join the European Union, they are still extremely intolerant of anyone who dares to bring up the taboo subject of the Armenian Genocide.
Last month, when Orhan Pamuk, an internationally-known Turkish novelist, boldly told a foreign reporter that one million Armenians were killed around 1915, just about all Turkish commentators, historians (government-paid propagandists) and politicians severely condemned the writer for making such a statement. A radical Turkish group even called for the murder of this “traitor.” Furthermore, a Turkish publisher is being prosecuted by the government for releasing the Turkish translation of an English language book that urges the acknowledgment of the Armenian Genocide. Around six months ago, in the midst of trying to qualify for the start of membership talks to join the EU, the Turkish Parliament adopted a new law that makes it a crime for anyone to acknowledge the Armenian Genocide. If this is how the Turkish government is acting, while trying to impress the Europeans, imagine what it would do if its actions were not under scrutiny!
Given all the controversy this issue has generated within Turkey, the Turkish “Flash TV” decided to air earlier this month a five-hour live talk show on the Armenian Genocide. The host of the program requested that the Armenian Patriarchate send a representative to take part in this show. However, the Patriarchate refused to participate by saying that it did not have an expert on the subject to be discussed. The host then invited Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu, the outspoken and courageous pastor of a local Armenian evangelical church, to present “the Armenian point of view.” Rev. Aghabaloghlu is a well-known activist who has already been jailed once for challenging the confiscation of his church’s property by the Turkish government.
While there have been many talk shows on the Armenian issue, no one has ever dared to go on Turkish TV and repeatedly assert in a bold and brazen manner, as Rev. Aghabaloghlu did, that there is no doubt a genocide was committed against the Armenians. Both Hulki Jevizoglu, the host of the show, and his main guest, historian Mehmet Saray were dumb-founded and tongue-tied by the Armenian clergyman’s unexpectedly outspoken remarks. In a very calm and congenial manner, and with always a smile on his face, Pastor Aghabaloghlu said on national Turkish TV that all Turks in Anatolia know the truth about the Armenian Genocide. He said that no one dared to talk about this subject and that anyone who had the courage to speak about it, is called a traitor, condemned by the media, taken to court, and sent to jail.
Despite all attempts to shut him up during the show, Rev. Aghabaloghlu kept on insisting that as a clergyman he has the obligation to tell the truth. When asked to back up his comments, he said that he knew the facts first-hand from the experiences of his own family. Besides, he added, there is plenty of evidence for the Genocide in thousands of books and that everyone knew that the Armenians in Anatolia were the victims of Genocide.
Otherwise, he said, what did happen to the Armenians inhabiting that region? Did they evaporate? Did they decide to migrate en masse? Are there any Armenians left in Anatolia?
Making the Turks even angrier, Rev. Aghabaloghlu said that since Armenians are mistreated in Turkey today, one can only imagine how much worse their treatment must have been back then under the Ottoman Empire?
Mehmet Saray, the Turkish historian, was so enraged by the Armenian clergyman’s assertions that he kept asking the host of the show, “where did you find this man?” Saray said he would have refused to appear on the show if he had known that he would take part in such a “low quality” discussion and that his years of research and his books on this issue would be ignored.
When a viewer from Erzerum called to say that mass graves of Turks were recently uncovered, Rev. Aghabaloghlu immediately retorted: “How do you know that these bones did not belong to Armenians?”
This astounding conversation, broadcast live to millions of Turkish viewers, went on until the wee hours of the morning.
Rev. Aghabaloghlu is the courageous shepherd not only of his own flock, but that of all Armenians in Turkey who dare not to speak out fearing for their lives! The good pastor risked his life by making such bold remarks on a taboo subject in Turkey. European Union officials should warn the Turkish government that Turkey’s EU membership prospects would be seriously jeopardized should anything happen to this brave Armenian servant of God who, as he says, has an obligation to tell the truth!

[Joseph]

'I do not want the Armenian people to be assimilated in Europe. I do not want them to go into oblivion. They should flourish even more. They should be awakened even more.'

AN INTERVIEW WITH Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu of Istanbul

By Appo Jabarian
Executive Publisher/Managing Editor
USA Armenian Life Magazine

Last week's issue of USA Armenian Life featured an interview with the courageous "Baadvelee" (Reverend) Krikor Aghabaloghlu, the pastor of the Gedik Passha Armenian Evangelical Church in Istanbul.

The interview took place during Rev. Aghabaloghlu' s visit with the Armenian American community in San Francisco on May 19-21.

The following is the second and final part of the interview:

USA Armenian Life: During the first four months of this year, two earth-shaking murders took place in Turkey.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Three of them took place. Yesterday they killed five more.

USA Armenian Life: Later on, if possible, please give some details on the third murder. The first one was on January 19, when the extremist Turks murdered the Armenian journalist and editor of "Agos" Hrant Dink. The second one, if I'm not mistaken, was on April 18, in Malatia when three non-Armenian Christians - one German and two Turkish Christians - were murdered. So, on the occasion of these murders and according to many sources, there is a forecast that these events will become more frequent. Do you agree that this will be so?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: My brother, now you know what can happen. During the last few years, the missionary work has multiplied.

Why did it multiply? Because the Turkish people are sending missionaries to Europe. The Muslims are preparing missionaries and are sending them to Europe. They are saying, "We should Islamize all of Europe. We should Islamize all of America." They are working very hard by making a lot of effort. The European Christians and the American Christians are saying, "These people are coming and they want to convert us to Islam. So, let's go to Turkey and let's preach!"

USA Armenian Life: Convert them to Christianity!

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: That's it! It's not something else. But for them "all roads shall be open. For the Christians the roads shall be obstructed." That's not fair! If you do as you like, in return others have to be able to do what they like.

USA Armenian Life: There should be equality.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Yes, there should be. Some people come forward and claim: "No! These people are not coming to preach Christianity. They are coming to take our homeland away from us, to divide us. They are coming with bad intentions."

And the Turkish people are obedient to their superiors. If one lone (Turkish) professor asserts the way things are, they’ll blindly believe him. The masses begin to believe that "missionary activity is a bad thing; these people are not coming just to distribute the Bible. They have a special plan thing. They will undermine Turkey and take it away from us. Then what! The entire Christianity is our enemy."

There is something else: America went and hit Iraq. Isn't that so? Now, they are saying: "Why did America hit Iraq? Iraq is Muslim, that's why! They don't want Muslim countries to prosper. Also, all Christians are the enemies of the Muslims."

They always talk, talk, talk like this. And they write in the books and via the television. They fill the people's brain. Then, what will the average people do? It will become the enemy of the Armenian people, the enemy of the Christian Turks, because Christianity is animosity for those people. "They are trying to take his country away from him."

And there is the secret government and military people (the Deep State/).

Let me tell you. There is a retired colonel, a government person who after my televised talk told his Christian neighbor: "Had this Krikor lived on my street I would have killed him or would have expelled him with his family. He would not have been able to enter that street." He lives in the Army. Now he is retired. This shows that there are people like him who have animosity against the Armenians. What do they do with that?

These people or the secret police secretly infiltrate among the youth who congregate in big cities in great numbers and through secret methods relay to them thoughts such as, "I wish someone would kill Krikor. We would be so happy. If you do it, you will be a courageous person. You will be a hero! And then what will you become? We will hand the Turkish flag. We'll take your photo." You have seen similar photos haven't you?

USA Armenian Life: Yes.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Isn't it so? This shows that that flag is tarnished with Christian blood. And these people feel proud and encourage others. Now he enters into prison. And how do they greet him? Do you know how? Like Turkish princes. And he gets encouragement from other youth.

Now they have come up with a new law. They say that they will prepare new books so that they could explain "this so-called Armenian Genocide; how the Armenians massacred the Turks. We will teach all our students, all of them."

And special professors are prepared. They are sent among the soldiers. They give lessons to the soldiers. They are sent abroad to give lessons. They always, always tell these lies. And like this by repeatedly telling these, what do you do? You corrupt the youth's thoughts and you encourage them by telling them "Go, kill!"

USA Armenian Life: Courageous Reverend of the Armenians, during your sermons, you empower and encourage Christianity, courageous Christianity, active Christianity to which the Armenian people have been attached. What message would you like to relay to the Armenian Americans and, for that matter, to the entire Diaspora Armenians?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Brother, now, in a foreign country, the people are comfortable. The comfort brings heaviness upon the man. It brings sleep. Now we are over there, in a Muslim country. There is always a watcher. They keep you awake.

And you exert effort to stay awake. Here, (in the Diaspora) there is no problem. They come her and they go to sleep. They indulge in European traditions. They submerge into the lifestyle and they get lost!

I do not want the Armenian people to be assimilated in Europe. I do not want to go into oblivion. They should flourish even more. They should be awakened even more. Here, everything is in your hands. You should grab it and use it so that you can introduce and promote the Armenian nation among other nations. This is necessary. That is why I come, and speak courageously with God's grace. I want to encourage people, to awaken them, and to promote unity. That is the most difficult thing, because for many years, there hasn't been a strong organization that could bring us closer, you know.

There is only the Genocide issue. But besides that, we need to know more that we're Armenians.

USA Armenian Life: Meaning that we need to be guided by national awareness.

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: Aha! Yes! A leader is needed. A strong leader is needed. A Governor is needed. Oh! There is no government. Now, Armenia’s is something new at 16 years of age. Before that, we've been living under other countries’ rules. We should tell them that we would like to become a nation. Yes! Let's earn it!

Now look! The people of Turkey are intelligent. They go to Europe, send money to Turkey. They learn everything and they start working in Turkey. We also must acquire, earn and make Armenia stronger. There is a lone Armenia and there is a lone flag. There is nothing else.

On the other hand, the other objective is to strengthen Christianity, because, our Armenian people are chosen from among other people. We're the first nation that embraced Christ. We feel proud. But if you ask "who's Christ?" the Armenian child doe not know. The Armenian family does not know. It's painful for me. How could it be that in a free country, the churches are empty? How could it be that all he churches are empty? You cannot be an Armenian only on April 24 or during a holiday. Our Armenian people have been sacrificed for just being Armenian, for just being Christian. Yet, they have preserved Christianity. They have not said: "Yes, when give up Christ I will win." They haven't! Had they said it, they would have been cursed.

USA Armenian Life: Do you have faith that our people's just cause will be solved justly in the near future?

Rev. Krikor Aghabaloghlu: If we trust in God, not ourselves, our minds. And if we take this issue before God with one heart, and if we are filled with spiritual genius, if we find a language for effective communication and speak from within the heart of foreign countries and I wish and pray that God would give us spiritual genius/wisdom then the case will be solved.

===

Note: Turkey's Denial of the Armenian Genocide and the State of Armenian Historic Sites in Turkey

As part of its denial campaign, the Turkish government to this day continues to try and erase evidence of the existence of Armenians from Turkish-occupied Western Armenia - the central and eastern Anatolian regions - (now called, central and eastern Turkey) through the destruction and intentional neglect of Armenia's historic sites which date back centuries. This includes over 2,500 sites within Turkey's control, including more than 200 monasteries and 1,600 churches.