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Turkish fascist right wingers arrested- Wow! look who it was.

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  • #11
    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    It's just twists and turns in the fog.

    Thugs, when they get too thuggish, are generally disposed of by their employers - rather like dogs who get too fond of barking and biting are disposed of by their owners. These arrested dogs were barking and biting too much on their own initiatives - so now they have to be put down.

    Same thing happened to last summer, to that what's-his-name Turkish "historian" who wrote that most Alevi Turks and Kurds were actually originally ethnic Armenians. Prior to that, he had barked only at the behest of the Turkish state. But now he had deluded himself into thinking he was a proper historian, and was barking in public on his own initiative - and barking a story that his employers considered to be off-message: so he had to be whipped and sent back to his kennel, tail between his legs.
    I agree with your assessment. I think those men were becoming an embarrassment to their "employers" and now they are being silenced as they have outlived their usefulness.
    General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”


    • #12
      For more background on our lawyer friend
      General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”


      • #13
        Originally posted by crusader1492 View Post other words the status quo will remain in Turkey from the top down. Would you agree?
        Good analysis of Bell's assesment.
        "All truth passes through three stages:
        First, it is ridiculed;
        Second, it is violently opposed; and
        Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

        Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)


        • #14
          Originally posted by crusader1492 View Post
 other words the status quo will remain in Turkey from the top down. Would you agree?
          I said it was twists and turns in the fog - the fog makes it unclear in what direction things are going.
          Plenipotentiary meow!


          • #15
            Turkish nationalists accused of plotting coup d’état in 2009
            28.01.2008 16:08 GMT+04:00
            /PanARMENIAN.Net/ A large number of documents clearly showing the hierarchical structure of the group have also been seized in the recent operations. The organization’s manifesto and even organizational charts showing the hierarchy of the group, future plans and lists of agencies the organization plans to infiltrate are among the documents Prosecutor Zekeriya Oz has already been through. According to a report from the Hurriyet daily, some members of the Ergenekon network were in the past active members of Hizbullah.

            The suspects detained in Tuesday's operation included Veli Kucuk, a retired major general who is also the alleged founder of an illegal intelligence unit in the gendarmerie, the existence of which is denied by officials; controversial ultranationalist lawyer Kemal Kerincsiz, who filed countless suits against Turkish writers and intellectuals who were at odds with Turkey’s official policies; Fikret Karadag, a retired army colonel; Sevgi Erenerol, the press spokesperson for a group called the Turkish Orthodox Patriarchate; Guler Komurcu, a columnist for the Aksam daily; and Sami Hostan, a key figure in the Susurluk investigation. Ali Yasak, a well-known gangster linked to the figures in the Susurluk incident, was also detained in the operation.

            A police investigation into a neo-nationalist gang believed to be the extension of a clandestine network of groups with members in the armed forces has discovered that the group was plotting to stage a coup against the government in the year 2009 and that suspects so far apprehended are only the collaborators of the real plotters in the military, Turkish newspapers reported on Friday.

            The investigation into the gang, 33 of whose members were taken into police custody earlier this week as part of an investigation into an arms depot found in Istanbul in June of last year, has exposed solid links between an attack on the Council of State in 2006, threats and attacks against people accused of being unpatriotic and a 1996 car crash known as the Susurluk incident, which revealed links between a police chief, a convicted ultranationalist fugitive and a member of Parliament as well as links to plans of some groups in Turkey's powerful military to overthrow the government.

            The gang is a part of a structure named Ergenekon, declared a terrorist organization by the Istanbul Chief Prosecutor’s Office, an aggregation of many groups of varying sizes, many of which have in their names adjectives such as "patriotic," "national," "nationalist," "Kemalist" or "Ataturkist." Ergenekon is the name of a legend that describes how Turks came into existence.

            The investigation has found that the Ergenekon phenomenon, also referred to as Turkey’s "deep state," stages attacks using "behind-the-scenes" paramilitary organizations to manipulate public opinion according its own political agenda.

            The investigation has so far found that the Ergenekon organization had plotted to kill Turkey’s Nobel Prize-winning author Orhan Pamuk and other public figures to drag Turkey into chaos to create the perfect environment for a coup - not unlike the atmosphere of the pre-1980 period, which ended with a violent military takeover - that was to be staged in 2009. Evidence so far also suggests that 700 kilograms of explosives found loaded on a van in Istanbul belonged to this gang, which is also supposed to have plotted the assassination of Armenian journalist Hrant Dink, Turkish media reports.
            General Antranik (1865-1927): “I am not a nationalist. I recognize only one nation, the nation of the oppressed.”


            • #16
              Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
              These arrested dogs were barking and biting too much on their own initiatives - so now they have to be put down.

              Today's Zaman, Turkey
              Jan 27 2008

              To fight with gangs needs to fight with our genes

              by AYSE KARABAT

              Since the police detained more than 30 people recently on suspicions
              that they are members of a shadowy clandestine network that seeks to
              create a chaotic atmosphere in Turkey to prepare for a military coup,
              millions of questions have been flying in the air.

              First of all, we should keep in mind that these people have not been
              brought in front of a court yet. But maybe since we are so sure about
              the fact that these kinds of gangs have been a part of our political
              culture for years, almost everybody is convinced that they are
              involved with the Hrant Dink assassination, the slayings of
              missionaries in Malatya and the Daniþtay attack. But the first
              question that keeps everyone busy is not whether they are guilty or
              not, but if there is enough evidence.

              The second question is the nature of the investigation. Is this an
              investigation against the "deep state" or is it an operation aiming
              at some elements of the deep state. Because when you look at the
              names of those under detention, the first thing you should notice is
              that they were so public. They were everywhere, they were making
              provocations against intellectuals, they were blaming everyone who
              was not with them, accusing almost everyone of being traitors. Maybe
              for this reason they came to the point of being unbearable for the
              real "deep state."

              Another important question is to what extent this operation will go.
              For example, if they were aiming at a military coup, who would carry
              out this coup?

              Everybody is also discussing whether the government will be brave
              enough to follow through to the end. Finally, will we be able to live
              in a country that is free of these kinds of gangs?

              The pessimists are saying that the government, which is dragging its
              feet on dealing with Article 301, may not go any further. The
              optimists are recalling the victory speech Prime Minister Recep
              Tayyip Erdogan made right after the July 22 elections. In this speech
              he promised to fight against such gangs.

              All these questions and discussion points are right. But there are
              more questions to be asked. For example, will society show its
              reactions to these gangs and give the courage to the judiciary and
              security forces to go through to the end? Will society send the
              message of "enough" to those who are protecting these gangs?

              What allows these gangs to survive is the understanding of their
              relation to the order of things in Turkey: The superiority of the law
              can be put aside, when it is necessary. A part of society is agreeing
              with this, too, because our sense of justice was harmed a long time
              ago. In general, we don't believe that our judiciary is functioning
              well. This is why instead of applying to the court when we have a
              problem, we prefer to solve it for ourselves. This is one of the main
              reasons that we have these gangs. Will society able to change this
              attitude and will we really be able to believe that everyone without
              any exception recognizes the superiority of the law?

              Will the society change its mentality about the state? Will the
              society be brave enough to think that the state is just an entity
              composed of citizens -- citizens who are not only subjects but also
              individuals with rights? Once society accepts this fact, will it
              question the persons who are claiming that they are representing the

              Strong belief -- or, to put it more correctly, strong perception of
              some state officials who think that they are above society -- is one
              of the main reasons for the existence of these gangs. Since some
              believe in this, the natural outcome is that citizens are not
              valuable and the law is something forgettable because ordinary
              citizens don't understand the state's affairs and don't have the
              ability to understand the high interests of the state. Will society,
              citizens who are totally aware of their rights, force a change in
              this understanding? Will society be brave enough to face up to its
              history and its understanding of negative nationalism, which creates
              countless 'others' as enemies?

              These understandings have engrained themselves in society through the
              education system and became almost a part of our genes. Will we be
              brave enough to fight against our genes?

              To get rid of these gangs, the right question is not if the
              government will be brave enough to go through to the end, but if the
              society will be brave enough to go through to the end.

              Because, as Edmond Burke puts it, "The only thing necessary for the
              triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

              AYSE KARABAT
              Plenipotentiary meow!


              • #17
                Originally posted by crusader1492 View Post
       other words the status quo will remain in Turkey from the top down. Would you agree?
                It could well remain but there are some signals as to the contrary. Turkey is going through an interesting period lately. There is a serious class struggle within Turkey between the conventional, Kemalist, statist and somewhat relatively leftist ruling Istanbul/Ankara pro-staus quo elite, and the newly emerging merchant, conservative, Anatolian, religious, nuvo-riché anti- staus quo group.

                This class struggle shows itself in the slogans of the Kemalists who claim secularism is being sacrificed to the headscarf and the endless struggle and complaints of the AKP with state bureacracy and army which is trying to hold on to 80 years of rule.

                In essence there seems to be a shift in power and this struggle will determine the future of the country. If we get over this without a coup or massive streetfights or civil war it will mean a huge step towards democracy.