2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

[AlphaPapa]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

Really ? Please do you have any proof on your important information ? Any www pages ? Sincerely, I am dazed, knocked down.

I am analyzing the Season of Turkey in France : http://www.globalarmenianheritage-ad...0activites.htm

With Google, we have this : http://images.google.fr/images?q=MHP...v=2&hl=fr&sa=2

and I have found this : http://thegrudgingblogger.blogspot.c...elections.html

Nil (Paris)
#1123

He is correct. Whenever I blunder around ultra-nationalist turkish websites, its all over the place.

Three crescents...cus only one crescent is for the half ass nationalists.

[egeli]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

The symbol on its cover, three crescent moons, is a symbol used by the MHP, the Turkish fascist party. It's like designing a "German cultural season" program with a cover covered in swastikas!

The three crescent moons symbol is not exclusively a symbol for Turkish fascism, or for the MHP. If you ever go to a Mehter Janissary parade,the Janissaries will be holding the three crescent flag. Why would a historical parade by promoting a political party? Similarily, I doubt the three crescents are displayed in France to promote Turkish fascism.

The modern three crescents originated from Ottoman flags used in military conquests. Its contemporary use evokes nostalgic sentiment of an Imperial Turkish past that conquered in the name of Islam.

This is amusing to me, because Janissaries especially in their apex were of indigenous Christian origin. Rivalries between these new converts and Muslims of Islamic heritage were very common in the Ottoman court. While the Janissaries were Islamic conquerers, they definitely were not of Turkish origin. Infact, Janissaries deeply resented Anatolian Muslims and considered them of inferior genetic stock. They often called them "Turks", which before the 19th century was a derogatory reference to Anatolian peasants.

Turks today have a very poor understanding of Ottoman history, it is too biased by modern Turkish nationalism.

[Armanen]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

egeli, you should start a thread about the janissaries.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

The three crescent moons symbol is not exclusively a symbol for Turkish fascism, or for the MHP. If you ever go to a Mehter Janissary parade,the Janissaries will be holding the three crescent flag. Why would a historical parade by promoting a political party? Similarily, I doubt the three crescents are displayed in France to promote Turkish fascism.

The modern three crescents originated from Ottoman flags used in military conquests. Its contemporary use evokes nostalgic sentiment of an Imperial Turkish past that conquered in the name of Islam.

This is amusing to me, because Janissaries especially in their apex were of indigenous Christian origin. Rivalries between these new converts and Muslims of Islamic heritage were very common in the Ottoman court. While the Janissaries were Islamic conquerers, they definitely were not of Turkish origin. Infact, Janissaries deeply resented Anatolian Muslims and considered them of inferior genetic stock. They often called them "Turks", which before the 19th century was a derogatory reference to Anatolian peasants.

Turks today have a very poor understanding of Ottoman history, it is too biased by modern Turkish nationalism.

It was not a symbol to them, used as it is today, for the ultra-nationalists. It's use today is very clear in meaning.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

The three crescent moons symbol is not exclusively a symbol for Turkish fascism, or for the MHP. If you ever go to a Mehter Janissary parade,the Janissaries will be holding the three crescent flag. Why would a historical parade by promoting a political party? Similarily, I doubt the three crescents are displayed in France to promote Turkish fascism.

The modern three crescents originated from Ottoman flags used in military conquests. Its contemporary use evokes nostalgic sentiment of an Imperial Turkish past that conquered in the name of Islam.

These "re-enactment" Janissaries are also considered by the MHP to be a symbol of MHP ideology. I've seen a couple of these parades in provincial locations, and they were followed at the rear by groups of MHP supporters carrying their triple-crescent flags and making "grey wolf" gestures with their fists.

[Army]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

These "re-enactment" Janissaries are also considered by the MHP to be a symbol of MHP ideology. I've seen a couple of these parades in provincial locations, and they were followed at the rear by groups of MHP supporters carrying their triple-crescent flags and making "grey wolf" gestures with their fists.

I havent watched any mehter live; however MHP may support them because they represent Turkish history. That does not make them a part of MHP. I've also heard that three moon as an Ottoman symbol.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

MHP may support them because they represent Turkish history. .

What is today the Turkish identity and the perception of Turkish history was a joke 100 years ago. What we see today is mustafa kemals image of Turkish history, just as how Hitler had his own image of German history.

At one time, I never thought I'd hear Turks talking about the Armenian genocide or hear of an Armenian speak for the Armenian people (Dink), but now I have hope that one day, a major Turkish newspaper, will publish an article similar to this:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,531909,00.html

I pray Armenia doesn't become victim to the nationalist battle that will precede it though.

[CRDA-France]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

Thank you to Bell-the-cat and to egeli for the important Turkish political historical information.

But I would like to go back to the initial subject : the Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France.

This Turkish Season in France made us analyze that it is possible to ask questions on 1915 AG related to non-cultural, non-historical and non-political themas : http://www.globalarmenianheritage-ad...e/textes13.htm

I shall try to translate these lines by little steps because they deal with what it is behind the screen.

Nil (Pars).



#1722

[bell-the-cat]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

I havent watched any mehter live; however MHP may support them because they represent Turkish history. That does not make them a part of MHP. I've also heard that three moon as an Ottoman symbol.

I didn't say they were part of them, but there were no objections against the mhp "hangers on" at the two street parade displays I saw (one was in Sivas, the other might have been Kayseri but I can't remember for certain).

For the flag - I've also heard some say it is a Seljuk battle flag , but since no such flags survive it is not a provable claim. I've also seen it in the form of painted graffitti on the walls of a ruined Armenian church, graffitti that predates the MHP, so the MHP didn't invent its use as an extremist symbol.

[CRDA-France]

Re: 2009-2010 : Official "Season of Turkish Culture" in France

My last text about the "Season of Turkey in France" in the website of the "French Coordination Council of Armenian Associations" :

http://www.ccaf.info/item.php?r=0&id=434

http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en

I'll try to translate it into English one day. Presently, my energy is mobilized to denounce this cultural imposture.

Best regards. Nil (Paris)

http://www.globalarmenianheritage-adic.fr/fr/6histoire/par_pays/turquie5f0themas.htm

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