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Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

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  • Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia


    Ottoman Armenians are marched to a prison by armed Turkish soldiers in April 1915. About 972,000 Armenians disappeared from population records in 1915 and 1916.


    Memo From Istanbul

    Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

    By SABRINA TAVERNISE

    Published: March 8, 2009

    ISTANBUL — For Turkey, the number should have been a bombshell.

    According to a long-hidden document that belonged to the interior minister of the Ottoman Empire, 972,000 Ottoman Armenians disappeared from official population records from 1915 through 1916.

    In Turkey, any discussion of what happened to the Ottoman Armenians can bring a storm of public outrage. But since its publication in a book in January, the number — and its Ottoman source — has gone virtually unmentioned. Newspapers hardly wrote about it. Television shows have not discussed it.

    “Nothing,” said Murat Bardakci, the Turkish author and columnist who compiled the book.

    The silence can mean only one thing, he said: “My numbers are too high for ordinary people. Maybe people aren’t ready to talk about it yet.”

    For generations, most Turks knew nothing of the details of the Armenian genocide of 1915 to 1918, when more than a million Armenians were killed as the Ottoman Turk government purged the population. Turkey locked the ugliest parts of its past out of sight, Soviet-style, keeping any mention of the events out of schoolbooks and official narratives in an aggressive campaign of forgetting.

    But in the past 10 years, as civil society has flourished here, some parts of Turkish society are now openly questioning the state’s version of events. In December, a group of intellectuals circulated a petition that apologized for the denial of the massacres. Some 29,000 people have signed it.

    With his book, “The Remaining Documents of Talat Pasha,” Mr. Bardakci (pronounced bard-AK-chuh) has become, rather unwillingly, part of this ferment. The book is a collection of documents and records that once belonged to Mehmed Talat, known as Talat Pasha, the primary architect of the Armenian deportations.

    The documents, given to Mr. Bardakci by Mr. Talat’s widow, Hayriye, before she died in 1983, include lists of population figures. Before 1915, 1,256,000 Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire, according to the documents. The number plunged to 284,157 two years later, Mr. Bardakci said.

    To the untrained ear, it is simply a sad statistic. But anyone familiar with the issue knows the numbers are in fierce dispute. Turkey has never acknowledged a specific number of deportees or deaths. On Sunday, Turkey’s foreign minister warned that President Obama might set back relations if he recognized the massacre of Armenians as genocide before his visit to Turkey next month.

    The collapse of the Ottoman Empire was bloody, the Turkish argument goes, and those who died were victims of that chaos.

    Mr. Bardakci subscribes to that view. The figures, he said, do not indicate the number of dead, only a result of the decline in the Armenian population after deportation. He strongly disagrees that the massacres amounted to a genocide, and he says Turkey was obliged to take action against Armenians because they were openly supporting Russia in its war against the Ottoman Empire.

    “It was not a Nazi policy or a Holocaust,” he said. “These were very dark times. It was a very difficult decision. But deportation was the outcome of some very bloody events. It was necessary for the government to deport the Armenian population.”

    This argument is rejected by most scholars, who believe that the small number of Armenian rebels were not a serious threat to the Ottoman Empire, and that the policy was more the product of the perception that the Armenians, non-Muslims and therefore considered untrustworthy, were a problem population.

    Hilmar Kaiser, a historian and expert on the Armenian genocide, said the records published in the book were conclusive proof from the Ottoman authority itself that it had pursued a calculated policy to eliminate the Armenians. “You have suddenly on one page confirmation of the numbers,” he said. “It was like someone hit you over the head with a club.”

    Mr. Kaiser said the before and after figures amounted to “a death record.”

    “There is no other way of viewing this document,” he said. “You can’t just hide a million people.”

    Other scholars said that the number was a useful addition to the historical record, but that it did not introduce a new version of events.

    “This corroborates what we already knew,” said Donald Bloxham, the author of “The Great Game of Genocide: Imperialism, Nationalism and the Destruction of the Ottoman Armenians.”

    Mr. Bardakci is a history buff who learned to read and write Ottoman script from his grandmother, allowing him to navigate Turkey’s written past, something that most Turks are unable to do. He plays the tanbur, a traditional string instrument. His grandfather was a member of the same political party of Mr. Talat, and his family knew many of the important political figures in Turkey’s founding.

    “We had a huge library at home,” he said. “They were always talking about history and the past.”

    Though he clearly wanted the numbers to be known, he stubbornly refuses to interpret them. He offers no analysis in the book, and aside from an interview with Mr. Talat’s widow, there is virtually no text beside the original documents.

    “I didn’t want to interpret,” he said. “I want the reader to decide.”

    The best way to do that, he argues, is by using cold, hard facts, which can cut through the layers of emotional rhetoric that have clouded the issue for years.

    “I believe we need documents in Turkey,” he said. “This is the most important.”

    But some of the keenest observers of Turkish society said the silence was a sign of just how taboo the topic still was. “The importance of the book is obvious from the fact that no paper except Milliyet has written a single line about it,” wrote Murat Belge, a Turkish academic, in a January column in the liberal daily newspaper Taraf.

    Still, it is a measure of Turkey’s democratic maturity that the book was published here at all. Mr. Bardakci said he had held the documents for so long — 27 years — because he was waiting for Turkey to reach the point when their publication would not cause a frenzy.

    Even the state now feels the need to defend itself. Last summer, a propaganda film about the Armenians made by Turkey’s military was distributed to primary schools. After a public outcry, it was stopped.

    “I could never have published this book 10 years ago,” Mr. Bardakci said. “I would have been called a traitor.”

    He added, “The mentality has changed.”


    Sebnem Arsu contributed reporting.

    Link

  • #2
    Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

    Still, it is a measure of Turkey’s democratic maturity that the book was published here at all.
    Does the writer of the article actually know what a democracy is? Because Turkey sure as hell isn't one.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

      Originally posted by hipeter924 View Post
      Does the writer of the article actually know what a democracy is? Because Turkey sure as hell isn't one.
      The writer of the article is quoting what murat bardakçı said so he doesnt necessarily think that Turkey is a democracy.

      In terms of democracy compare Turkey to Armenia, Singapore, China, not to mention all other middle eastern and african countries and you'll see that Turkey is a freaking "shining star" of democracy. But still, our democracy is a pile of dung compared to other countries....

      This book is more of a referance book and contains Talats personal notes from his notebook. There actually was a lot of mention of it when it came out and I saw it being discussed in at least 2 shows on TV. It is not an easy read because of the heavy Ottoman language hence its low popularity:



      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

        Originally posted by hipeter924 View Post
        Does the writer of the article actually know what a democracy is? Because Turkey sure as hell isn't one.
        As hitite so nicely replied, there aren't a lot of democracies out there.
        If you can name me 10, real democracies, I'll be impressed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

          Originally posted by hrai View Post
          As hitite so nicely replied, there aren't a lot of democracies out there.
          If you can name me 10, real democracies, I'll be impressed.
          NZ is a democracy, but only out of sheer luck...it was a response to the US+UK dissing NZ a while back.

          ^Of course saying that there is one minor party that wants to ruin it "Act NZ" - or in other words extremist pro-us wankers

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

            Originally posted by hitite View Post
            The writer of the article is quoting what murat bardakçı said so he doesnt necessarily think that Turkey is a democracy.

            In terms of democracy compare Turkey to Armenia, Singapore, China, not to mention all other middle eastern and african countries and you'll see that Turkey is a freaking "shining star" of democracy. But still, our democracy is a pile of dung compared to other countries....

            This book is more of a referance book and contains Talats personal notes from his notebook. There actually was a lot of mention of it when it came out and I saw it being discussed in at least 2 shows on TV. It is not an easy read because of the heavy Ottoman language hence its low popularity:



            http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=zBK340915BG815
            Thanks for clarifying.

            What I hate is when people dare to say NZ is equal to something like the US.



            This is an example of a Pro-US site that says US has no human rights abuses

            Best site to go to is: http://www.hrw.org/en/united-states
            Last edited by hipeter924; 03-20-2009, 12:49 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

              Originally posted by hipeter924 View Post
              Thanks for clarifying.

              What I hate is when people dare to say NZ is equal to something like the US.



              This is an example of a Pro-US site that says US has no human rights abuses

              Best site to go to is: http://www.hrw.org/en/united-states
              HiPeter, you seem more anti-US-UK-zid than pro-NZ...... I've just been watching ABs doing the Haka on youtube, AWESOME.

              (Then some clips of Chabal bouncing ABs for breakfast!)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

                Originally posted by hrai View Post
                HiPeter, you seem more anti-US-UK-zid than pro-NZ...... I've just been watching ABs doing the Haka on youtube, AWESOME.

                (Then some clips of Chabal bouncing ABs for breakfast!)
                The funny thing I find is people call Maori a quote "dead culture", have to direct them on U Tube to typing in "Maori Culture" where they get 12+ pages of it.

                As for Rugby I like it, unless we lose to Australia or South Africa*.

                *needs to be said they poisoned our team so they could win a cup once, are bastards ever since...

                As for Rugby South Africa has refused to let the NZ Maori Rugby Team enter their country. Cracked me up because there is no such thing as a pure blood Maori (in fact the highest people have is 98% Maori). Anyways, this is coming from a country that practiced apartheid against Africans compared to NZ Europeans who actually interbred and married Maori,lmao.


                SOUTH AFRICA
                News | Profile | Anthem | Fixtures | Results
                Racism laws halt NZ Maori tour
                Thursday 19th February 2009
                England v Scotland

                England to win by 11-15 points 5/1 or 16-20 points 11/2. Flutey is 2/1 to score a try. Bet Now

                A proposed rugby match between the Springboks and New Zealand Maori in the South African township of Soweto is likely to be cancelled because of racism laws.

                The national rugby unions have been working to organise the June match which would have acted as a warm-up for South Africa ahead the British and Irish Lions series.

                The match would also have provided competition for the New Zealand Maori team which has no international program this year because of New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) budget cuts.

                The sticking point around the match was a ruling of the South African government's President's Council prohibiting the Springboks from playing against racially selected teams.

                The Maori team, comprising players of indigenous heritage and which has been used as New Zealand's international second-string or 'A' team at times in recent seasons, would technically fall into that category.

                SARU strategic communications manager Andy Colquhoun said the council's resolution was a "fundamental stumbling block" to the match taking place.

                "There are several obstacles to overcome should we wish to pursue the offer," Colquhoun said in a statement released.

                "They include the financial viability of the project, logistics around venues and player availability and the fundamental stumbling block of a long-established President's Council resolution forbidding the appearance of SARU teams against opponents selected along racial lines.

                "A final decision is not expected until the end of March."

                New Zealand's race relations commissioner Joris de Bres threw support behind the proposed match on Thursday, writing to the South African Rugby Union (SARU) to say he had "no problem" with the ethnic make-up of the Maori team.

                "As New Zealand's Race Relations Commissioner I appreciate why such a policy would have been adopted, particularly because of the racial discrimination in sport that existed in South Africa under apartheid," De Bres said.

                "However, there is no such discrimination in New Zealand: people of all ethnic backgrounds are eligible to play in New Zealand's national, regional and local representative teams. Alongside that, consistent with the principle of freedom of association, people are free to play together in any other combination.


                (Except if you are not a Maori and want to play for the Maoris of course)

                "I would urge you to proceed with the proposed game between the Springboks and the New Zealand Maori rugby team in Soweto. I am sure it would be welcomed by the people of Soweto, the people of South Africa and the people of New Zealand."

                In terms of competition, the NZ Maori is often of a higher standard than full Test teams from most other nations.

                The NZ Maori have wins to their credit over the British and Irish Lions in 2005, beat the United States 74-6 in 2007 and last year beat Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Australia's A selection to win the Pacific Nations Cup.

                The abandonment of the match on racial grounds would have a bitter irony for Maori players who were once prevented by South Africa's apartheid laws from joining All Blacks tours to the Republic.

                The match is also seen as a filip to Soweto, the sprawling black community on the outskirts of Johannesburg that was the heartland of the anti-apartheid struggle.

                The NZRU however remain hopeful that the match against the Springboks will take place.

                NZRU General Manager Professional Rugby Neil Sorensen said a number of discussions on the possibility of a NZ Maori - Springboks match had been held with SA Rugby acting managing director Andy Marinos and supported by Springboks coach Peter de Villiers.

                "As we said in December, we have been working very hard to try and arrange a fixture for the New Zealand Maori team for this year and the Springboks match is the one we are currently pursuing.

                "Obviously, it would be fantastic for New Zealand Maori, the Springboks and their respective fans if the match took place but it is still early days and we know that there are a number of hurdles that need to be cleared if the match is to be confirmed."

                Sorensen said the SA Rugby President's Council resolution which reportedly forbids SA Rugby teams playing against teams selected along racial lines had not come up so far in the discussions between the NZRU and SA Rugby.

                "That is obviously just one of the many things that SA Rugby will need to discuss internally but we obviously hope that the match will take place and will hold further talks with SA Rugby over the coming weeks."

                New Zealand Maori last toured South Africa in 1994, playing four matches against Vaal Triangle, Free State, Griqualand West and Eastern Province.
                Last edited by hipeter924; 03-20-2009, 01:21 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

                  20 Euros.
                  I remember when Turkish books were inexpensive.
                  Plenipotentiary meow!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Nearly a Million Genocide Victims, Covered in a Cloak of Amnesia

                    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
                    20 Euros.
                    I remember when Turkish books were inexpensive.
                    I remember when I could pick up books for $15...now they cost around $25-$35

                    Comment

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