Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!

2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.

8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Ninth Circuit proves that there was no Armenian genocide

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ninth Circuit proves that there was no Armenian genocide

    Ninth Circuit proves that there was no Armenian genocide

    August 25, 12:15 PMLA Eurasian Affairs ExaminerJoe Ribakoff

    The most important component of a good legal education is learning to think like a lawyer. However, you can save a lot in student loans if you check yourself into a mental hospital instead. In Movsesian v. Versicherung AG, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals provides more proof of the benefits of a good legal education.

    Movsesian is a lawsuit about an interesting California law that allows the heirs of people killed during the Armenian genocide to sue the debauched opportunistic life insurance companies who have still not paid policy benefits to any of the victims’ families.

    Here is that interesting law in its full glory:

    (a) The following definitions govern the construction of this section:
    (1) “Armenian Genocide victim” means any person of Armenian or other ancestry living in the Ottoman Empire during the period of 1915 to 1923, inclusive. Who died, was deported, or escaped to avoid persecution during that period.
    (2) “Insurer” means an insurance provider doing business in the state, or whose contacts in the state satisfy the constitutional requirements for jurisdiction, that sold life, property, liability, health, annuities, dowry, educational, casualty or any other insurance covering persons or property to persons in Europe or Asia at any time between 1875 and 1923.
    (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, any Armenian Genocide victom. Or heir or beneficiary of an Armenian Genocide victim, who resides in this state and has a claim arising out of an insurance policy or policies purchased or in effect in Europe or Asia between 1875 and 1923 from an insurer described in paragraph (2) of subdivision (a), may bring a legal action or may continue a pending legal action to recover on that claim in any court of competent jurisdiction in this state, which court shall be deemed the proper forum for that action until its completion or resolution,
    (c) Any action, including any pending action brought by an Armenian Genocide victim or the heir or beneficiary of any Armenian Genocide victim, whether a resident or nonresident of this state, seeking benefits under the insurance policies issued or in effect between 1875 and 1923 shall not be dismissed for failure to comply with the applicable statute of limitation, provided the action is filed on or before December 31, 2010.
    (d) The provisions of this section are severable. If any provision of this section or its application is held invalid, that invalidity shall not affect other provisions or applications that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application.”

    The California legislature knows how to write a law, don’t you agree? Can’t you just read stuff like this all day? It certainly compares favorably to a James Fenimore Cooper novel.

    But, enough with this statutes as literature diversion. Back we go to the 9t Circuit Court of Appeal and its decision.

    Movsesian is a class action lawsuit by heirs of those who perished during the genocide. Brought under California’s Armenian genocide insurance law, the action seeks the money that the shameless defendant insurance company has still has not paid the families of the victims.

    The issue before the court in Movsevsian was not whether or not the plaintiffs’ forbearers are really still alive or whether they can prove that their forbearers paid their premiums before they were murdered in 1915. The issue is whether the law is preempted and therefore invalid.

    How’s that? How, why, who and what can invalidate California insurance law in such a way?

    Now, you will begin to observe the sophistication and nuanced thinking that comes with a good legal education.

    Why of course state law can be preempted. Although we have a federal form of government with a federal government with limited power, our federal government with limited powers has become all but unlimited in power and easily able to bully the states.

    Moreover, what is more important than US foreign policy? That’s right, nothing. And who is the dominate voice in US foreign policy? You’re right again, our president. So, can you imagine the situation in which presidential foreign policy is contradicted by a state’s insurance law? Such a situation is untenable. We cannot allow a state to have an insurance law that is contrary to presidential foreign policy. Therefore, if this California law contradicts US presidential foreign policy, then this law is void.

    Is this law contrary to US presidential foreign policy? Here again, the court’s unerring and sophisticated logic will astound you.

    US foreign policy is to promote human rights and oppose genocide. But, the court in its wisdom ignored this policy and instead determined that an important plank of President Obama’s foreign policy is to oppose th recognition of the Armenian genocide. It found that that this was an important part of President Obama’s foreign policy not by asking him, but because the presidents before him were against acknowledging that there was an Armenian genocide.

    But the court’s cognitive acrobatics do not end here. We still need to get to that part of the court’s complex legal reasoning on preemption: How can this California insurance law contradict President Obama’s foreign policy?

    According to the court, it contradicts President Obama’s foreign policy because if he opposes recognizing the Armenian genocide, then by law, it is factually determined that this genocide never happened. Because California’s insurance law could not exist if there was no Armenian genocide, it is contrary to presidential foreign policy and, therefore, preempted.

    Indeed, this is thinking like a lawyer at its finest.

    But, how is fine analysis different from Catholic Church’s decision to excommunicate Galileo or Josef Stalin’s decision to promote the fraudulent biological theories of Trofim Lysenko? Both the Church and Stalin also made their factual determinations based on policy.

    In Movsesian, the court elevates policy over fact. Instead of undertaking an investigation into whether there was an Armenian genocide, the court resolved the factual question by a policy analysis, which is always a superior way to determine facts.

    I am not exactly an expert on the Armenian genocide, but I have read the dispatches from US ambassador Henry Morgenthau. But, I guess his reports cannot be factually correct because they too are contrary to President Obama’s foreign policy and therefore are preempted.

    Next week, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal will issue its long awaited decision on whether our foreign policy requires college professors to teach that the moon is made out of cheese and that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.
    Last edited by Gavur; 09-18-2009, 03:23 PM.
    "All truth passes through three stages:
    First, it is ridiculed;
    Second, it is violently opposed; and
    Third, it is accepted as self-evident."

    Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)