Book Club: The Brothers Karamazov (Book II)

[Siggie]

Re: Book Club

I think it makes sense... The idea is that if you're dishonest, you suspect the same of all and are distrustful. If you can't trust others, how can you love them?
Now, I think so many people are dishonest that we're suspicious regardless. E.g. Even if I'm not a liar, how do I know you aren't?
Reminds me of The Invention of Lying

[KanadaHye]

Re: Book Club

What do you think of what Zosima said about being true to self? He said if you lie, you won't be able to love.

I think it explains the downfall of western civilization

[Siggie]

Re: Book Club

What do you think of what Zosima said about being true to self? He said if you lie, you won't be able to love.

BTW, I hope your error of calling the elder, "oldest" didn't occur because you're reading online summaries of the book instead of the book, AGAIN.
As I told you before, no summaries! Anyone reading this, will have read the book, so they don't need your summary. Write your commentary.

[MrHyeSev]

Re: Book Club

Part 1: Book II: Chapters 1–4

In this section it was time for Fyodor to meet up with his son's at Zossima's cell.
Dimitri was a no show & everyone was kind of worried/unclear of where he would be.

It was a nervous time when they were having lunch, but Fyodor wouldn't stop making fun of the lifestyle that Zossima had & the monostary. After a while, Fyodor asked his oldest "What must I do to gain eternal life?"
The oldest replied not to lie & be true to yourself. But the no one bought his question because he was laughing & joking when they told him what to do. This section more talks about Zossima's life of how he is just a very well reserved man you can say that is happy with life, quite & peaceful & never got disturbed by Fyodor's rude gestures & expressions. It's crazy of how sick & twisted one father can be. Even when he asks for help he makes a joke out of it, so no one takes him seriously,

[Siggie]

Re: Book Club: The Brothers Karamazov (Book II: Chapters 1-8)

I did comment on Fyodor (the father) earlier. Here when he begins the nonsense to fill the silence upon meeting Zosima, I feel a little sorry for him because awkward silence is uncomfortable for me too and makes me want to fill it which can lead to stupid comments, but the feeling was short lived. Pretty quickly, I wanted to punch him in the mouth to make him shut up already. Dostoevsky did do a good job of depicting the nervous verbal diarrhea though.

Zosima takes a break and talks to some women who came to seek his blessing. He tells one to be honest and he tells Fyodor the same thing (don't tell yourself lies).
What do you guys think about the message there that lying to oneself leads to the inability to recognize reality which then in turn precludes the ability to love others?

[Siggie]

I am on chapter 4 of Book II, so I don't have much to say yet, but I wanted to open it up. Don't feel like you need to finish the section to begin discussing it though! If you think of something as you are reading, please post it lest you forget. By dividing the discussion into separate threads, we'll minimize spoilers. If you are posting about something that you think is a big plot element that you might be spoiling, then post it with a warning ahead of that potential spoiler.

For example, you can do this...

***Spoiler***











(then leave some space like this...)
















[spoiling comments here...]