Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[Azad]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I didn't think Russian's would advance on Tbilisi.

I believe there will be an excuse to make it to Tbilisi. Looking at the amount of armament that is advancing, this is not a small incursion. Russia will not leave Georgia without having a pro Russian government in Georgia. Russia wants a very Vertical Axis from Iran to Russia without NATO nesting in the middle of it. Russia is not only securing its oil routs, it is creating a dividing line between the East and the West. A strong pro Russian Iran will eventually tame the Arabs to its control. Russia is building a new Empire.

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Report: Abkhaz troops push Georgians from gorge

MOSCOW: Troops in the separatist Georgian province of Abkhazia launched an operation Tuesday to push Georgian forces out of the northern Kodori Gorge, the only area of the province still under the control of the former Soviet republic, the Interfax news agency reported.

The operation in the western region comes as Russian troops have pressed into Georgia in an escalating conflict that started last week over another breakaway province, South Ossetia in central Georgia.

The Interfax report cited the Abkhaz defense headquarters as saying the operation started early Tuesday to push Georgian troops out of the northern part of the Kodori Gorge. The report gave no other details. The operation could not immediately be independently verified.

Russian-backed separatist forces in Abkhazia launched air and artillery strikes Saturday to drive Georgian troops from their bridgehead in the region. Abkhazia's separatists declared Sunday they would push Georgian forces out of the gorge.

On Monday, Russian troops invaded Georgia from Abkhazia while most Georgian forces were busy with fighting in the region around South Ossetia.

Both South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s and have built up ties with Moscow.

In 2006, Georgian forces moved into the upper part of the Kodori Gorge to root out members of a defiant militia. Georgia later established a local administration made up of people who fled the fighting in Abkhazia.

Abkhazian and Russian officials have said they believe Georgia intends to launch an offensive from there to retake Abkhazia and demanded the withdrawal of Georgian troops

From http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...a-Abkhazia.php

[Yedtarts]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I supposed its America's more advanced technology that allows it to think of war in humanistic terms. During the latest Iraq war, Iraqis were out in the streets, going to markets, etc. during the US bombing. That's how much confidence they had that the US would only hit military targets. The US uses high technology to hit military assets only.

What a crap!

And what about uranium depleted bullets and bombs that US used in Iraq? Was that “America's more advanced technology war” you’re talking about?

[Merv]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_RqK_tpkBU

Depleted uranium, napalm, white phosphorus, agent orange, cluster bombs...advanced technology of atrocity.

[Armanen]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Situations like this one is why it's almost impossible to be an Armenian in the Diaspora. Which side should the Armenians choose, to defend the land of their birth or to help their ancestral nation and help Russia?

Unlike other Diasporan communities, Armenians of Javakh are just as much part of Armenia as those in Yerevan or Gyumri. Javakh was an Armenian territory before being given to the georgians and it will come back to Armenia again.

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Hmm...

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I must say, I was watching BBC earlier and they have a segment called HARDTALK where a reporter debates/interviews a guest and today's guest was the parliament speaker of Georgia (via video) and the BBC guy clearly had a pro-Russian stance...well for a BBC guy. He accused Georgia of being foolish, of instigating the war, of indiscriminately bombing Ossetia, of challenging the fact that Russians are bombing Georgia to the scale it is being said by Georgians, of massive Georgian exaggerations and so-on. It was pretty surprising but it was also a relief to see.

[Merv]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/08/12/georgia/

"There was so much blood spilled"

A Russian invasion has left besieged Georgians angry at their government -- and at the once supportive Bush administration -- for failing to intervene.

By John Hudson and Nana Naskidashvili

Aug. 12, 2008 | Vaso Chlukhadze, 25, is one of hundreds of war refugees gathered outside the mayor's office in Tbilisi, Georgia. Chlukhadze has been waiting two days for a place to sleep. He fled South Ossetia after being forced from his home by Russian air raids. War has quickly escalated in this region since late last week, with Georgia agitating for greater control of disputed territory in the Caucasus, and Russia going aggressively on the attack with war planes, tanks and troops. Like many here directly in the middle of it and suffering the consequences, Chlukhadze blames Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili for the violence that left his family homeless.

"The [Georgian] government wasn't right. If they don't have enough force they shouldn't behave like this," he said.

If Vladimir Putin's aim is regime change in Georgia, as American officials claim, it may already be working. Many of the weary-eyed refugees were too angry to speak to journalists. But they are bitterly angry with their government. "Kill Saakashvili," a few hissed.

Four days into the conflict, the consequences of war are spreading quickly. In Tbilisi, refugees stand pleading outside government buildings, begging for food and shelter. Residents wake at night to the sound of bombs. Wounded soldiers flood Tbilisi hospitals. Doubts about the government's integrity are rising.

Indeed, the violence and chaos are eroding support for a president who was already waning in popularity. There still appears to be an urge among a majority here to rally around the government and the country. It makes sense: They are at war and now are being occupied, with the Russian takeover of several Georgian cities. But with the rising deaths and number of refugees, negative sentiment towards Saakashvili appears to be greater than ever before.

At a hospital in Tbilisi hundreds of soldiers are recovering. Some complained of a lack of food and water, and poor planning in the field. At times, they weren't sure who the enemy was. Twenty-two-year-old Vaja Lanchava lies limp in his bed. His bloody limbs shrouded in gauze, he says, in broken whispers, that the Georgian fighters never had a chance against the Russians.

"There was so much blood spilled and for what outcome?" said Lasha Lanchava, the soldier's older brother. "He fought and was wounded for what result?"

There is also great anger here at the West. The sense is that Europe won't intervene, because of dependency on Russian gas and oil. And many feel betrayed by America, especially with the Bush administration having been a vocal supporter of independent Georgia. "As for now, I have no faith in the European Union or the United States," says Giorge Abesadze, 25, a resident of Tbilisi. "I only have faith in myself, Georgia and the Georgian people. Georgians have always been alone in the world."

A few say America is MIA because it's fighting the wrong war in Iraq. "Things shouldn't have turned out like this," says Gia Jibladze, 48, a poet. "Do you think we can depend on America's help? Of course we can't." Uncertainty and fear are palpable: "How long can Tbilisi stand?" Jibladze added.

What started as a battle to regain control of South Ossetia – a tiny breakaway region backed by Russia -- quickly escalated into what appears to be all-out war. The Russians' retaliation was far more ferocious than anyone expected. Russian forces have bombed a key port, blocked supplies from entering the country and taken control deep inside Georgian territory.

Temur Iakobashvili, minister of reintegration issues, said Russia has been planning the attack for a long time. "Russia dragged us into this war." But some Georgians affected by the fighting also blame poor leadership.

"We have an idiot president," said Marika, 40, a physician, who wouldn't disclose her surname. "He ruined our country and that's his idiotic politics." She said her co-workers have no idea if their relatives in South Ossetia are dead or alive.

Outside the mayor's office, 18-year-old Diana Khetaguri described the bombings in South Ossetia. "I felt like the bomb fell right on our house," she said. "It had this horrible light -- it lit up everything."

Khetaguri's house was destroyed on Friday. Her black leather sandals revealed pink toenails caked with dirt. She and her family fled to a nearby village that was also destroyed by Russian air raids. With no money and no possessions, she waits to register for shelter. Choking back tears, she lamented the state of her country. "Nearly everyone can see what kind of government we have," she said. "They shouldn't have let this happen."

Still, the Russian attacks on Georgian soil have also rallied nationalistic support around Georgia's wartime government. On Sunday afternoon cars cruised through the streets of Tbilisi streaming Georgian flags. Citizens in red and white face paint, the colors of Georgia's flag, carried signs reading "Stop Russian Aggression" at a demonstration in front of the Russian embassy.

"I'm supporting Saakashvili in his decision with all my soul, flesh and blood," said Lasha Geladze-Mamukadze. "Real Georgians feel exactly the same."

As the shirtless 26-year-old waved his Georgian flag alongside a group of demonstrators, they cheered and sang national songs.

But refugees, having lost everything, are complaining of government shelters with shattered glass on the floor, no toilets or running water. "Even if they win, what are they going to tell the mothers of dead soldiers?" asked Chlukhadze. "Their dead bodies are sprawled on top of each other."

[Merv]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I must say, I was watching BBC earlier and they have a segment called HARDTALK where a reporter debates/interviews a guest and today's guest was the parliament speaker of Georgia (via video) and the BBC guy clearly had a pro-Russian stance...well for a BBC guy. He accused Georgia of being foolish, of instigating the war, of indiscriminately bombing Ossetia, of challenging the fact that Russians are bombing Georgia to the scale it is being said by Georgians, of massive Georgian exaggerations and so-on. It was pretty surprising but it was also a relief to see.

This is the first time on a BBC talking point on an issue like this that you can see a significant number of Western voices dissenting from the "party line." One decade ago, such views were almost impossible to find when it comes to issues concerning Russia. The Brits are highly Russophobic, possibly even more than the average American. But people have become rather jaded since then (particularly due to Iraq) and are increasingly realizing the extent of media manipulation going on. Of course, the majority are still duped.

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russia slams French resolution urging Georgia peace.

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/story.html?id=bb939ac8-a8a1-4c7c-98ea-7893020e8f26