Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russian armour massed near Zugdidi-Reuters witness

ZUGDIDI, Georgia (Reuters) - More than 100 Russian armored vehicles were massed two km (1.5 miles) from the centre of Zugdidi, a major town in western Georgia, a Reuters witness said.
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"I counted 104 Russian army vehicles, including 40 armored vehicles, most of which are tanks," Reuters staff photographer Umit Bektas said by telephone from the city.

Bektas said their purpose was unclear.

He said the convoy included weapons such as rocket propelled grenades and was carrying Russian flags.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080814/...MQtsakL_lbbBAF

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Independence first, talks with Georgia second - Abkhazia

Abkhazia’s Foreign Ministry says its principal condition of beginning talks with Georgia is Tbilisi’s recognition of Abkhazian independence. It also says that recent sessions of the UN Security Council have illustrated the absence of any possible security guarantees from the international community in case of military aggression against it.

The Abkhazian Foreign Ministry statement said: “Georgia’s actions, supported by disinformation by leading American and British media, once more confirm that Georgia was, and still is, considering the use of force in resolving the Georgia-Abkhazia conflict.

“Abkhazia considers it essential to keep a substantial contingent of Russian peacekeepers present on its territory, as only Russia can guarantee the preservation of the Abkhazian people and stability in the whole region.

“In particular the UN Security Council and the OSCE have proved helpless and incompetent in urgent conflict prevention.”

Currently, Abkhazia is a de facto independent state not recognised by any country. It proclaimed independence from Tbilisi in the 90s which resulted in a year-long war.

Abkhazia’s officials believe the independence of Kosovo earlier this year have set a precedent, and along with the outcome of the conflict in South Ossetia, it will be enough to provide a basis for a long-awaited resolution of the country's status.

From http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28991

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Looks like the Russians are getting a lot of abandoned Georgian gifts.
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Ignoring Gori arsenal would have been mad – Russian FM

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has criticised media reports on Wednesday which had claimed that Russian tanks were on their way to Tbilisi. Lavrov told a news conference that a Russian convoy driving away from Gori had been on a mission to safeguard weaponry abandoned by the Georgians – and had never been destined for the country’s capital.

“The weapons were ready for use, including the tanks,” he said. “It would have been mad to turn a blind eye to that and pass by the munitions. Anyone with bad intentions - a madman - could have jumped in a tank and started shooting.

“The Russian military were neutralising this arsenal. So, these tanks were driven away from Gori. The march was spotted, and CNN started trumpeting this across the world as breaking news - Russian tanks on the move to Tbilisi.”

Lavrov said he was disappointed that images of the convoy had been misrepresented to viewers and readers around the world. He added that the easy-to-access arsenal near Gori had to be dealt with.

“Reconnaissance troops had detected enormous amounts of weapons,” he said. “Military hardware, some 15 tanks, armoured personnel carriers, a lot of ammunition and explosives, not to mention small arms - the same amount of weapons was found near the city of Senaki.”

From http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29001

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Medvedev: We will back any decision of Abkhazian and Ossetian people

South Ossetia and Abkhazia have signed the six-point peace plan, drawn up by Russia and France, aimed at bringing stability to the troubled region. Their respective leaders, Eduard Kokoyty and Sergey Bagapsh, agreed to the plan during a meeting with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in Moscow.

The Russian President offered his support to the two breakaway republics and went on to criticise the countries which supplied weapons to Georgia.

“We need to establish a final legally-binding agreement on non-use of force that will be signed by sides of the conflicts under guarantees given by Russia, the European Union, OSCE or possibly under some other guarantees,” he said.

“I would like you to know and tell your people: Russia’s position hasn’t changed. We will support any decision on the status of Abkhazia and South Ossetia made by their people in accordance with the UN Charter and other international conventions. We will not only support such decisions, we will guarantee their enforcement.”

The South Ossetian President, Eduard Kokoyty, thanked Russia for its efforts in helping guarantee its security.

Slovakia condemns Georgia’s actions

Earlier, Slovakia's Prime Minister, Robert Fitzo, condemned Georgia's actions in South Ossetia. He accused Tbilisi of provoking the war in the region.

The Vice-Speaker of the Slovakian Parliament added that Georgia attempted genocide, and called for an international tribunal to investigate.

Germany's Foreign Minister, Frank Walter Steinmeier, pointed out that the situation in South Ossetia cannot be stabilised without Russia's mediation.

From http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28995

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I also see the similarities but I think there is one big differences from 1915 and 2008. First in 1915 there was no independent Armenia which could act to defend the interests of Armenians in the near abroad. At the very least Armenians from Armenia and even those from the Diaspora would come to the defense of Javakh's Armenians. Also, georgia has spent millions to try to portray itself has a shining beacon of democracy under attack by the the evil empire to the north, and not as many people as they would like are buying it. If they were to try to actually launch attacks on Armenians, not just cleanse us from Javakh as they have been doing, then they would have a lot harder time trying to sell their case even to the overly anti Russian "western" mainstream media.

Russia is so angry with Georgia that if the Georgians try anything in Javakh, Russia will probably assist the Armenians there in a broad capacity. They'd love to see Georgia suffer more reversals

[RSNATION]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Looks like the Russians are getting a lot of abandoned Georgian gifts.
------------------------------------------------

Ignoring Gori arsenal would have been mad – Russian FM

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has criticised media reports on Wednesday which had claimed that Russian tanks were on their way to Tbilisi. Lavrov told a news conference that a Russian convoy driving away from Gori had been on a mission to safeguard weaponry abandoned by the Georgians – and had never been destined for the country’s capital.

“The weapons were ready for use, including the tanks,” he said. “It would have been mad to turn a blind eye to that and pass by the munitions. Anyone with bad intentions - a madman - could have jumped in a tank and started shooting.

“The Russian military were neutralising this arsenal. So, these tanks were driven away from Gori. The march was spotted, and CNN started trumpeting this across the world as breaking news - Russian tanks on the move to Tbilisi.”

Lavrov said he was disappointed that images of the convoy had been misrepresented to viewers and readers around the world. He added that the easy-to-access arsenal near Gori had to be dealt with.

“Reconnaissance troops had detected enormous amounts of weapons,” he said. “Military hardware, some 15 tanks, armoured personnel carriers, a lot of ammunition and explosives, not to mention small arms - the same amount of weapons was found near the city of Senaki.”

From http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29001

The Georgian army is a joke. They abandoned and never even used most of their equipment; Just like the Azerbaboons during the war in Artsakh. The Abkhaz and Ossets are going to be better armed than ever. I wonder what the Georgians still have, how many tanks, apcs, howitzers, rocker launchers, etc?

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Here is a logical explanation of why Georgia attacked (I found this in cyberspace):

The number 300 explains what tougher means - that's the count of Russian artillery pieces that have been deployed to South Ossetia alone, once Saakashvili dispatched his United States and Israel-trained troops into action at Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia. That push, according to Russian military thinking, was not intended to hold Tskhinvali for Georgia, but to destroy it, and withdraw swiftly back into Georgia - ending the South Ossetian secession by liquidating its people.

For all Russians, not only those with relatives in Ossetia, the near-total destruction by Georgian guns of Tskhinvali is a war crime. The deaths of about 2,000 civilians in the Georgian attack, and the forced flight of about 35,000 survivors from the town - the last census of Tskhinvali's population reported 30,000 - has been described by Russian leaders, and is understood by Russian public opinion, as a form of genocide. Ninety percent of the town's population are Russian citizens.

To Russians, the Georgian attack of August 8 looks like the very same "ethnic cleansing", which the US and European powers have treated as a crime against humanity, when committed on the former territory of federal Yugoslavia.
"If [former Yugoslav president] Slobodan Milosevic should be put on trial, the opinion here is - so too should Saakashvili," says a leading Moscow analyst.

Russia bids to rid Georgia of its folly
By John Helmer

I hope the Russians make Georgia pay every last cent to rebuild Tskhinvali. Perhaps this is why they spared the BCT pipeline.

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

August 14, 2008
Thursday

Meeting with the President of South Ossetia Eduard Kokoity and President of Abkhazia Sergei Bagapsh

During the meeting with Dmitry Medvedev, President of South Ossetia Eduard Kokoity and President of Abkhazia Sergei Bagapsh signed the six principles for resolving the Georgian-South Ossetian and Georgian-Abkhazian conflicts.

President of South Ossetia Eduard Kokoity and President of Abkhazia Sergei Bagapsh signed the six principles for resolving the conflicts that were agreed upon by the presidents of Russia and France on 12 August 2008 in Moscow. These principles were published and publicly endorsed by Georgia, though with certain adjustments to paragraph six concerning the beginning of an international debate on ensuring the lasting security of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Dmitry Medvedev declared that Russia will support any decision on the status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia made by the peoples of these republics.

The President recalled the need for a legally binding treaty abjuring the use of force, to be signed by all parties and whose implementation will be guaranteed by Russia, the EU and the OSCE.

http://kremlin.ru/eng/sdocs/themes.shtml#205313

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

From LA Times:

Who got Georgia into this?

Actions by Bush and McCain misled the country into thinking the U.S. would come to its aid.

...

Haven't the Georgians noticed that we're sort of busy in Afghanistan and Iraq? That even if we had any available troops, we're not going to get involved in a shooting war with Russia, which has the world's second-largest nuclear arsenal? That we have no other forms of leverage over Russia these days?

So where did the Georgians get the silly idea that the U.S. would bail them out?

Maybe from John McCain, Republican heir apparent, whose top foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, also just happens to be a highly paid lobbyist for the Georgian government. Whoops -- correction! Scheunemann usedto be a highly paid lobbyist for Georgia. The McCain campaign says Scheunemann hasn't taken a dime from the Georgians since May 15. (Which is lucky for the Georgians, who are going to need all the spare cash they can get to rebuild all the stuff the Russians just bombed.)

According to the Washington Post, the relationship between Scheunemann and Georgia used to be very cozy (not to mention lucrative for Scheunemann). Between Jan. 1, 2007, and May 15, 2008, while Scheunemann was also a paid McCain advisor, "Georgia paid his firm $290,000 in lobbying fees."

And what did Georgia get in return? Well, no troops, that's for sure. But they got Scheunemann's (expensive) pledge to garner U.S. support for Georgia's admission to NATO and for its claims to South Ossetia, and his commitment to use his ties to politicians such as McCain to advance Georgia's causes. McCain has sponsored legislation supporting Georgia's claims over South Ossetia, an issue on which he was lobbied by Scheunemann's firm. And as recently as mid-April, Scheunemann was simultaneously taking money from Georgia and actively preparing McCain for supportive calls with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.

Is it any wonder that Saakashvili concluded that he had the backing of the U.S. Republican power structure when it came to South Ossetia?

But Scheunemann and McCain aren't the only ones who irresponsibly encouraged the Georgians to think that baiting the Russians was going to work out for them.

READ MORE -- http://www.latimes.com/news/columnis...lumn?track=rss

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Nice try...some neocon advises Armenia to distance itself from Russia

Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Russia’s Plan for Reestablishing Empire


With the rumbling of trucks, tanks, and assorted implements of war advancing on all fronts in the second phase of a Russian military invasion of the nation-state of Georgia - the world community should be awakened to the fact that Russia utilized time afforded from the cease fire to regroup. Armenia will be the next to fall under a Russian invasion aimed at reestablishing an empire that has existed in history under various forms controlled from different Russian capitals Muscovy, St. Petersburg, and more recently Moscow. Once Armenia has fallen Azerbaijan will be the next nation-state to come into this new incarnation of the Russian empire.

Russia chose Georgia because it provided a convenient excuse for action under the guise of defending ‘helpless’ Russian’s who were being persecuted by Georgia (Fcuk you, you cynical POS, know-nothing) but equally important was its strategic value with a coast that fronts the Black Sea. They fully realized that once Georgia was effectively under their control any military or humanitarian aid would be stopped (at least become more difficult) from reaching either Armenia or Azerbaijan by water since all ports on the Black Sea would undoubtedly be under their complete control.

Time for effective action by an alliance of former Soviet states headed up by Ukraine and supported by the United States and the European Union through logistical support is rapidly fading. Only by meeting the advancing Russian military head on in a line of defense that extends from Tbilisi (capital of Georgia) up and down the country with a force comprised of former Soviet states can there by any hope of blunting the Russian advance towards Armenia and then Azerbaijan. If it was at all politically feasible the United States and the European Union countries should also provide military hardware and even troops in an effort to contain this latest attempt by Russia to reestablish its empire.

Armenia should be cognizant that they are now squarely within the cross-hairs of the expansionist plans of a now fully capable, adequately funded, and determined Russia. They along with Azerbaijan should urgently be consulting with all the former Soviet states, the United States, and the European Union so that they may save their countries from extinction by the advancing boot of Russian imperialism. Once Georgia has been conquered the Russian military must realize that Armenia needs to be quickly captured by flanking across their border with Turkey and then inland so that any access to Armenia through Turkey is eliminated. After this is accomplished it is just a matter of advancing on Azerbaijan from two fronts, one from the newly conquered Georgia, and the other from the conquered Armenia.

After Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan will then be exposed to a Russian advance on its coast and across mother Russia to the north. One by one these East Asiatic former Soviet states (Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan – in order of attack and fall) will collapse under the advancing might of the Russian military. Once all of these nation-states have been brought into the fold of the new Russian empire it will then be time for the Russian military to tackle Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus and finally the much more substantial nations of Ukraine, and Poland.

Action must be taken now for one blink later we may be viewing an entirely new order – one based upon a steel hand of realism not inhibited by idealistic unrealistic illusion or morality.

Someone should tell this esh that there is no need for Russia to "invade" Armenia. Armenia is a willing participate in Russian hegemony for obvious reasons.

It seems these neocons are trying to impose a new cold war through lying and instilling fear. I suppose this is their plan in order to perpetuate their power/influence.