Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[North Pole]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russia Threatens Retaliation Against Israel

Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev (C) and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin (4th L) sit at the State Security Council session at the presidential residence at the Black Sea resort of Sochi August 26, 2008. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, defying U.S. pressure, said on Tuesday he had signed a decree recognising two rebel regions of Georgia as independent states.




MOSCOW — Russian security officials threatened retaliation against Israel for its weapons exports to Georgia including eight different aerial drones. Russian Deputy Chief of Staff Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn said Israel supplied at least eight different models of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to Georgia. Nogovitsyn said Israel has also sold a range of weapons and sought to export main battle tanks to Georgia.
Russian diplomatic sources said the government of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin was furious over Israel's refusal to impose a military embargo on Georgia. The sources said Putin's aides had urged Israel several times to halt weapons exports.
"We asked Israel not to sell offensive weapons to a hostile neighboring state, but they said they're a sovereign state," a diplomatic source said.
"Well, Israel shouldn't be surprised if we sell offensive weapons to Israel's neighbors."
Already, Russia, in wake of its military victory over Georgia, has scheduled a summit with Syria to discuss offensive weapons sales, the sources said. Syrian President Bashar Assad was scheduled to meet Putin in Moscow on Aug. 20.

Tbilisi has asserted that Israel continued to ship weapons and platforms to Georgia throughout the Russian war. But Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili reported delays in the supply of Israeli unmanned aerial vehicles to his country.
"The Israeli weapons have proved very effective," Saakashvili told a news conference on Aug. 13.

So far, the diplomatic sources said, Putin has been careful to limit Russian military sales to Iran and Syria to defensive systems. In 2007, they said, Putin, who remains in charge of defense export policy, vetoed efforts by the Defense Ministry and the state-owned arms agency Rosoboronexport to sell the Iskander-E long-range rocket to Syria.
"Putin will now offer Iskander to Syria," another Russian source said. "Whether this will be a serious offer or something just to scare the Israelis we'll know in another few months."

In December 2007, Israel agreed not to sign new contracts for offensive weapons to Georgia. But the Israeli Defense Ministry, supported by the United States, maintained it would honor existing arms deals with Tbilisi.

"We told the Israelis that this was a very unwise move and that Russians were being killed because of Georgia's policy," the Russian source said. "They didn't take us seriously, probably because they were encouraged by the United States."

"In 2007, Israeli experts trained Georgian commandos in Georgia, and there were plans to supply heavy weaponry, electronic weapons, tanks and other arms at a later date," Nogovitsyn told a news conference on Aug. 19. "But the deal didn't work out."
Officials said Moscow's assertion was based on a review of weapons and military installations captured in Russia's invasion of Georgia. They said Israel also trained Georgia's military, particularly its special forces.
At the news conference, Nogovitsyn did not identify the Israeli UAVs. Israel has acknowledged the sale of UAVs to Tbilisi.
The Russian deputy chief said Israel also exported bombs, mines and mine-clearing systems to Georgia. He said the systems were comprised of munitions that could explode landmines.

In late 2007, Israel agreed to end the sale of offensive military systems to Georgia. The decision by the Israeli Defense Ministry did not affect weapons already ordered by Tbilisi.
On Aug. 20, Russia and Syria were scheduled to begin a two-day summit meant to focus on defense and military cooperation. Syrian President Bashar Assad was scheduled to meet Russian President Dmitri Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin in what officials said could result in arms sales to Damascus.
"The significant military aid provided by Israel to Georgia in its war against Russia will affect in the future — probably in the near future — relations between Russia and Israel, as well as Russia's attitude toward Arab states," an unidentified Russian analyst said in an interview to Syrian state television on the eve of Assad's visit. "Russia will reassess its relations with Israel, and it is likely that Moscow will decide to increase its military aid to Arab countries in conflict with Israel, including Syria."

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/eu_russia0447_08_20.asp

Thanks to Israeli training, we're fending off Russia - xxxish Georgian Minister Temur Yakobshvili

Source - http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1010187.html

Temur Yakobshvili

It doesn't look good for you this time, Israel...

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

TEXT - Medvedev's statement on S.Ossetia, Abkhazia
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday signed decrees recognising the independence of Georgia's breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Following is the Reuters translation of his statement, which was posted on the Kremlin web site at: http://www.kremlin.ru/appears/2008/0...4_205744.shtml


"Respected Russian citizens!

You without doubt know about the tragedy in South Ossetia. The night-time artillery attack of Tskhinvali by Georgian troops led to the deaths of hundreds of our peaceful citizens. Russian peacekeepers, who carried out their duty to defend women, children and elderly people to the end, died.

The Georgian leadership violated the U.N. Charter, their obligations under international treaties, ignored common sense, and launched a military conflict in which civilians became the victims. A similar fate awaited Abkhazia. Apparently, Tbilisi counted on a blitzkrieg, which would hand the world a fait accompli: the most inhumane means to achieve their goal of taking over South Ossetia at the price of exterminating a whole people.

This was not the first attempt. In 1991, Georgian President Gamsakhurdia gave the order to storm Sukhumi and Tskhinvali under the motto "Georgia for Georgians". Just think about these words. It was Russia which then stopped the extermination of the Abkhaz and Ossetian people. Our country has become a mediator and peacekeeper which was looking for a political settlement. But we always proceeded from a recognition of Georgia's territorial integrity.

The Georgian leadership has chosen a different path. Undermining talks, ignoring signed agreements, political and military provocations, attacks on peacekeepers - all this flagrantly violated the regime in the conflict zones established with the support of the United Nations and OSCE.

Russia has shown restraint and patience. We have more than once called for a return to the negotiating table and did not depart from our position even after the unilateral declaration of Kosovo's independence. But our insistent calls to the Georgian side to sign agreements on the non-use of force with Abkhazia against South Ossetia remained unanswered. Unfortunately, they were ignored by NATO and even by the United Nations.

It is clear now: a peaceful solution of the conflict was not part of Tbilisi's plans. The Georgian leadership has been methodically preparing for war, while political and material help from outside mentors only strengthened its feeling of impunity.

On the night of Aug. 8, 2008, Tbilisi made its choice. Saakashvili chose genocide to solve his political tasks. Thus he killed with his own hands all hopes for the peaceful coexistence of Ossetians, Abkhazians and Georgians in one state.

The peoples of South Ossetia and Abkhazia have more than once spoken out in referendums in support of the independence of their republics. We understand that after what had happened in Tskhinvali and what was planned in Abkhazia, they have the right to decide their fate themselves.

The presidents of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, basing (their arguments) on referendums and decisions by regional parliaments, have appealed to Russia asking it to recognise the state sovereignty of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. The Federation Council and the State Duma have voted in support of these appeals.

In the current situation it is necessary to make a decision. Taking into account the free will of the Ossetian and Abkhazian people, proceeding from provisions of the U.N Charter, the 1970 declaration on principles of international law referring to friendly relations between the states, the 1975 Helsinki Final Act of the conference on security and cooperation in Europe and other basic international documents, I have signed decrees on the recognition by the Russian Federation of the independence of South Ossetia and the independence of Abkhazia.

Russia calls on other states to follow its example. This is a difficult choice, but this is the only chance to save peoples' lives.

Turkish source http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/h...d=244&sz=50363

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Declaring Javakhk independent, through force, without at least the reluctant go ahead from Tibilisi, would cause the ROA to be blockaded on a third front.
Armenia simply cannot afford this.

[Anoush]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Javakhk will be marked soon enough...here's why:

- Ethnic Georgians make up less than 48% of the Georgia's population (even less than that, as many families - especially Armenian families - names were forcibly Georgianized a few generations ago).
- Georgia is a multi-ethnic State (there are at least 6 different and distinct ethnic groups that make up Georgia).
- The population of Javakhk is 200-250 thousand, comprising a vast majority of Armenians (only 5 families of Georgian decent live in Javakhk)

...give it time for the political momentum to kick in...Javakhk will free itself (essentially peacefully) from Georgian subjugation and gain its autonomy or outright independence.

Why are we losing a good deal of momentum? This would've been a good timing for Javakhk's autonomy.

The same applied with Naxichevan. We could've gone into war against the azeris when their military were demolishing at leat 1,500 xachkars on broad daylight. Surely that would've worked out alright within the international law's framework. We had something to say and do then and we should have done it.

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Too bad they didn't mark Javakhk

Javakhk will be marked soon enough...here's why:

- Ethnic Georgians make up less than 48% of the Georgia's population (even less than that, as many families - especially Armenian families - names were forcibly Georgianized a few generations ago).
- Georgia is a multi-ethnic State (there are at least 6 different and distinct ethnic groups that make up Georgia).
- The population of Javakhk is 200-250 thousand, comprising a vast majority of Armenians (only 5 families of Georgian decent live in Javakhk)
- Officially, the amount of Armenians living in Tbilisi is 60 thousand. However, it is more like 200 thousand since there are many Armenians with Georgianized names who keep their "Armenianess" low profile due to intimidation.
- Javakhk's geography is easily defendable against military aggression because it is populated with Armenians; this population is contiguous from the border of Armenia (unlike Artsakh, where Kurd dominated Lachin separated Armenians); and there are only a few key geographical areas that, once sealed and defended, will secure Javakhk.
- Georgia's military is non-existent today.
- The few Meshenki Turks who recently "repatriated" to Javakhk have high-tailed it out of the area and won't be allowed back.
- The West's influence in the region is waning.

With all that said, there is no need to be pessimistic about the future autonomy of Javakhk.

Also, if Georgia wants to survive as a viable state, it will have to accept reality and set up a federated Georgia where all ethnicities control their autonomous areas and share power within a federal state, working out of Tbilisi. The only other option is that all current autonomous republics and future autonomous republics will gain their outright independence, leaving a Republic of Georgia a much smaller and weaker state.

Moreover, it will be better for the ROA to have an autonomous Armenian republic within a federated Georgia, as opposed to outright independence because Armenians will then be able to share in the state's decision making which has access to the outside world via the Black sea.

...give it time for the political momentum to kick in...Javakhk will free itself (essentially peacefully) from Georgian subjugation and gain its autonomy or outright independence.

[Yedtarts]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

The U.S. hands over military secrets to Moscow

Russia's military is surprised by the Georgian army's negligence
Nikolay Barsegov, Author's photo. — 21.08.2008

The U.S. equipped the Georgian army with these Hummers.

An elite group of Georgian special forces drove into the "Russian-occupied" Poti on 5 U.S. military Hummers this week. The vehicles were carrying explosives, firearms and top-secret satellite technology — the pride of NATO generals.

The Russian military learned the special forces were approaching the city long before their arrival. Their movement was detected by satellite and reports had been received from local Georgians angered by Saakashvili's recent military actions.

According to Russian officials, they didn't expect that a key unit of Georgian intelligence trained by top NATO specialists would drive directly into their hands. The Georgian officers were overtaken without causalities.

"We knew there was a lot of negligence going on in the Georgian army, but not to this degree," one well-known, highly-positioned Russian general told me, who didn't want to reveal he is currently stationed in Georgia.

There were also three Arabs among the 20-odd Georgians. The Russian military is interrogating the officers who say they didn't intend to blow anything up. All the artillery in the vehicle was there by chance, they say. They forgot to unload the Hummers before departing. They had arrived together in such a large number to carefully study the situation in the port city.

It's likely NATO will have to re-encode their entire military and space system after the operation, which will be costly. This will certainly give them something to think about: Are closer military relations with Georgia and Ukraine really worth the hassle?

http://www.kp.ru/daily/24150.4/366391/

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Azerbaijani MPs Condemn Russian State Duma’s Recognition of Independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia
25.08.08 18:18

Azerbaijan, Baku, 25 August / Trend News corr. I.Alizade / The Azerbaijani MPs believe that the Russian State Duma violates the international law through recognition of independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which are the Georgian territories. “Decision of the Russian State Duma and Council of Federation creates dangerous negative precedent for the world,” MP Aydin Mirzazade, an Azerbaijani parliamentary representative to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) and a member of the ruling New Azerbaijan Party (NAP), told Trend News on 25 August.

South Ossetia and Abkhazia Autonomous republics of Georgia declared their independence at the beginning of 1990 separating from Tbilisi. However, the international community did not recognize their independence. On 25 August, the Russian State Duma and the Council of Federation made a decision to recognize independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Both two houses of the Parliament applied to President Dmitriy Medvedev officially to recognize independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Mirzazade believes that there was no need for Russia, who is a member of the United Nations (UN) Security Council, to make such a decision.

“This decision should be failure and directed against Russia. Thus, there were nations within Russia to declare their independencies in different times,” the MP said.

According to Mirzazade, examination of this issue at the parliament show that Moscow does not insist on independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Mirzazade said that the decision demonstrates Russia’s position to the whole world and exerts pressure on the international community. “I hope that the Russian Government will function within the framework of the international law and will maintain its authority as the leading country of the world.”

According to Rabiyyat Aslanova, the chairman of the Standing Parliamentary Commission on Human Rights, this decision contradicts, which is the basic principle of the international law regarding the recognition and protection of territorial integrity

“Russia has always supported and protected this principle. Russia showed it during the Chechen war. However, at present Moscow does not respect this principle,” the chairman of the commission said.

According to Aslanova, the decision of the State Duma and the Council of Federation is a result of negative precedent, which appeared after the decision to recognize independence of Kosovo.

The decision of the Russian Parliament contradicts the international law norms, MP Asim Mollazade, the chairman of the opposition Democratic Reforms Party, said.

“Russia’s decision does not stabilize situation in South Caucasus region. The decision will aggravate the complex situation in the region,” Mollazade said.

According to Mollazade, the decision may be failure. The MP said that decision of any country, which supports separatism, may be directed against itself.

Baboon source http://news.trendaz.com/index.shtml?...278360&lang=EN

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russia's Parliament demands President Medvedev to recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia's independence
de A.C. HotNews.ro
Luni, 25 august 2008, 16:41 English | Regional Europe

Russia's Parliament decided to recognize the independence of the two Georgian separatist regions, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, international newspapers inform. However, the Parliament's decision has no judicial power: officially, it is the state's Foreign Affairs ministry that needs to recognize the two region's independence.

Russian deputy Konstantin Zatulin, director of the CSI countries' institute declared that the proposal will most surely be approved, Ria-Novosti reads. The Parliament's response comes after on Thursday, both Abkhazia and South Ossetia demanded Russia to recognize their independence.

According to a survey almost half of the Russian population believes that South Ossetia should now belong to Russia, Press TV informs.

From http://english.hotnews.ro/stiri-regi...dependence.htm

[Illuminator]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Too bad they didn't mark Javakhk

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Thought this was a cool map