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Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

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  • North Pole
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Russians dig in as pullback drags on in Georgia

    6 hours ago

    SACHKHERE, Georgia (AP) — Russian forces on Wednesday built a sentry post just 30 miles from the Georgian capital, appearing to dig in to positions deep inside Georgia despite pledges to pull back to areas mandated by a cease-fire signed by both countries.

    Russian President Dmitry Medvedev says his troops will complete their pullback by Friday, but few signs of movement have been seen other than the departure of a small contingent that have held the strategically key city of Gori.

    A convoy of flatbed trucks carrying badly needed food aid to one of the areas most heavily hit by the fighting was waved through a checkpoint by Russian soldiers.
    But conditions throughout much of Georgia remained tense.

    Russian soldiers were setting up camp Wednesday in at least three positions in west-central Georgia. Further east, soldiers were building a sentry post of timber on a hill outside Igoeti, 30 miles from Tbilisi and the closest point to the capital where Russian troops have maintained a significant presence.

    A top Russian general, meanwhile, said Russia plans to construct nearly a score of checkpoints to be manned by hundreds of soldiers in the so-called "security zone" around the border with South Ossetia.

    The sentry, who gave his name only as Corporal Vasily, said 23 Russian tanks, APCS and heavy guns showed up at the base on Tuesday and demanded to be let in. The Georgians refused and the Russians left after a 30-minute standoff but vowed to return after blowing up facilities in the village of Osiauri, he said.

    Georgia's Defense Ministry said Wednesday that Russian soldiers destroyed military logistics facilities in Osiauri, but the claim could not immediately be confirmed.

    "We're trying not to provoke them; otherwise they'll stay here for five to six months," Vasily said. He said the school itself had no heavy weapons or other significant strategic value, unlike the military base raided by Russians at Senaki, "where they even took the windows off the buildings."

    Russia sent its tanks and troops into Georgia after Georgia launched a heavy artillery barrage Aug. 7 on the separatist, pro-Russian province of South Ossetia. Fighting also has flared in a second Georgian breakaway region, Abkhazia.

    The short war has driven tensions between Russia and the West to some of their highest levels since the breakup of the Soviet Union.

    A cease-fire signed by the presidents of Russia and Georgia calls for Russian forces to pull back to the positions they held before Aug. 7. The cease-fire allows Russia to maintain troops in a zone extending about 4 miles into Georgia along the South Ossetian border.

    Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of the Russian general staff, told a briefing Wednesday that Russia will build a double line of checkpoints totaling 18 in the zone, with about 270 soldiers manning the front-line posts. He said the security zone would be 25 miles from the strategically key city of Gori, but the city is significantly closer to the zone's presumed boundaries than that.

    South Ossetia technically remains a part of Georgia, but Russia has said it will accept whatever South Ossetia's leaders decide about their future status — which is almost certain to be either a declaration of independence or a request to be incorporated into Russia.

    Western leaders have stressed Georgia must retain its current borders.

    "South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia," President Bush declared Wednesday in Orlando, Fla., referring to Georgia's two Russian-backed separatist regions.

    Russia's foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, has said the question of Georgia's territorial integrity is a dead issue, a sign that Moscow could try to absorb the two separatist regions.

    A U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee delegation, meanwhile, traveled to Georgia to show solidarity with its government and assess the situation after fierce fighting between Georgian and Russian troops.

    "We're not going to let this aggression stand. The world is behind you," U.S. Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., told female refugees during a visit to a center for displaced people in the capital, Tbilisi.

    "We can't let a bully do this, because if they do it here, they'll do it other places, and if we don't stop it here we'll have to stop it in a much more difficult way," Lieberman added.

    Lieberman and South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham met with Georgian officials as well as with the ranking U.S. general on the ground. Graham, speaking to refugees alongside Lieberman, said that the Russians are "not going to prevent the American people from helping you."





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  • North Pole
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Russia outfoxed NATO again


    Moscow rejects call for full pullout


    By Charles Clover in Moscow

    Published: August 20 2008 19:24 | Last updated: August 20 2008 19:24

    Russia made clear on Wednesday that it had no intention of bowing to Nato’s calls for a withdrawal to the positions its forces held before the invasion of Georgia.

    Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian military’s general staff, said a battalion of about 270 soldiers would occupy a swath of Georgian territory around the breakaway enclaves of Abkhazia and South Ossetia after the withdrawal of troops from central Georgia.

    “This is the buffer zone,” Colonel-General Nogovitsyn told a news conference, pointing at the area delineated on a map by a red line connecting eight Georgian towns around South Ossetia. “It is foreseen in the agreements on the movements of Russian forces, the peacekeepers, in the event of a conflict situation, which gives us the right in certain conditions to move and occupy the borders of the zone.”

    Dmitry Medvedev, Russia’s president, has pledged to complete the withdrawal from Georgia by Friday, as stipulated in a six-point peace plan. The agreement allows for buffer zones around the two Russian-controlled enclaves but it was not clear whether western governments had realised how large the zone would be.

    On the map presented by the defence ministry, the buffer zone stretches from the South Ossetian border almost to the Georgian city of Gori, and from the border of Abkhazia to the Georgian city of Senaki. Western governments have expressed frustration that instead of withdrawing its troops, Russia seems to be digging in at points along its farthest points of advance.

    Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, Nato secretary-general, has called on Moscow to withdraw its forces in Georgia to positions they occupied on August 6, the day before the confrontation erupted.

    It appears that Russia’s “line of responsibility” around the enclaves is consistent with the peace plan, which allows for eight military posts along the boundary of the zone. But it is not clear whether western governments had bargained on such a large “buffer zone” occupied by Russian troops for the foreseeable future.

    Thomas Steg, a German government spokesman, expressed Berlin’s frustration at the Russian moves. “We have no firm indications the Russian troop withdrawal has really begun,” he said. It was a “very unsatisfactory situation”.

    Col-Gen Nogovitsyn accused the Georgians, including Mikheil Saakashvili, the president, of foot-dragging. “Despite the fact that Mr Saakashvili has signed the six-point plan and agreed to withdraw Georgian forces to their permanent bases, this condition has not been fulfilled,” he said.

    When asked how long the deployment in the buffer zone would last, he said: “Time will show. It depends on how the political process develops.” Russia has made no secret of wanting to see Mr Saakashvili step down.

    Further increasing the pressure on Mr Saakashvili, the upper and lower houses of Russia’s parliament agreed to convene next week to discuss recognition of the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, threatening Tbilisi with de facto break-up of Georgia and possible eventual annexation of the territories by Moscow.

    Abkhazia’s parliament passed a resolution on Wednesday asking Russia to recognise its independence.

    Already last week, the question of breaking up Georgia was put forward when Mr Medvedev met the leaders of the two breakaway regions and seemed to give the Kremlin’s endorsement of their aspirations of independence from Georgia.

    Any resolution adopted by Russia’s parliament would not have any force unless implemented by the Kremlin, but the move seemed designed to gauge the level of public approval.

    ....





    Saakashvili loses presence of mind



    Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.




    Georgian President Saakashvili eats his tie on TV live (video)

    The BBC has recently aired a TV report, in which Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili ate his tie.

    The report was about the situation in the area of the conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia. The footage showed Saakashvili making a call to a top Western official. It could be clearly seen that Mr. Saakashvili was having a nervous breakdown.


    READ MORE -- http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/..._saakashvili-0


    YouTube - Saakashvili eats his tie




    Russia opens ‘genocide’ criminal case on South Ossetia events

    TSKHINVAL, August 14 (Itar-Tass) - The Russian Prosecutor’s Investigative Committee has opened a criminal case over the fact of murder of Russian citizens in South Ossetia under the Criminal Code article “genocide,” Igor Komissarov, an aide to the committee’s chairman, told Itar-Tass.




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  • RSNATION
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Originally posted by Armanen View Post
    Armenian, by "capability" do you mean strictly militarily Armenia can't defeat georgia one on one, or because of the politcal factors that would realistically be involved, such as azerbaijan and possibly even turkey coming to georgia's aid? If it is the latter than I agree, it would be a very serious risk for Armenia to take, even with Russian backing.


    One thing I disagree with though is that this current conflict being close to a possible ww3. I think it would have to be a big miscalculation on the u.s. to fight Russia, especially over georgia, more likely the recent news that poland would host the interceptor missles and Russia's talk of nuking poland and setting up bases in cuba are more likely to trigger a major conflict. At the end of the day the u.s. has more important spheres of influence to manage and really can't afford militarily or economically to fight another war, especially with a nuclear armed country.
    All this yammering about a possible WW3 from neo-cons, media, politicians etc is so ridiculous. If anything, we'll be back to a cold war situation between the US and its clients and Russian; detente. They'll fight proxy wars against one another and both will court China. Ultimately, the US "war on terrorism" will fail because in any battle against radical islam, the US could have used Russia's help and gathered intelligence but that ship has sailed.
    Damn neo-cons and their satanic ilk.

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  • Armanen
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Armenian, by "capability" do you mean strictly militarily Armenia can't defeat georgia one on one, or because of the politcal factors that would realistically be involved, such as azerbaijan and possibly even turkey coming to georgia's aid? If it is the latter than I agree, it would be a very serious risk for Armenia to take, even with Russian backing.


    One thing I disagree with though is that this current conflict being close to a possible ww3. I think it would have to be a big miscalculation on the u.s. to fight Russia, especially over georgia, more likely the recent news that poland would host the interceptor missles and Russia's talk of nuking poland and setting up bases in cuba are more likely to trigger a major conflict. At the end of the day the u.s. has more important spheres of influence to manage and really can't afford militarily or economically to fight another war, especially with a nuclear armed country.

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  • crusader1492
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    In the end, Javakhk Armenians are not asserting independence from Georgia, just autonomy.

    With that said, Tibilisi should not over-react, but judging from recent history, they just might.

    Leave a comment:


  • RSNATION
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Originally posted by Armenian View Post
    Politically and economically, Armenia today does 'not' have the courage/backbone, not to mention the capability, to wage a war against Georgia - unless Moscow gives Yerevan the green light and direct support. Seeing that the situation in Georgia is seriously bordering on a Third World War, I don't think Moscow will be looking to widen this conflict further by making Armenia jump into the fire. Also, the factors that forced Armenians to rise up against Turks in Artsakh do not currently exist in Javakhq. I'm sure officials in Tbilisi realize this. As a result, I don't think Tbilisi will be looking to incite its Armenian population any time soon. However, seeing just how irrational and idiotic the leadership in Georgia has been, I might be proven wrong...
    You're probably right. Armenia is most likely weary of getting involved. At the same time, the Georgians are probably looking to make an example of somebody and considering that Armenia/Armenians are pro-Russian, the Georgians might make life even more difficult for Armenians in Javakh. Let's hope the Armenians there are vigilant

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  • Armenian
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Politically and economically, Armenia today does 'not' have the courage/backbone, not to mention the capability, to wage a war against Georgia - unless Moscow gives Yerevan the green light and direct support. Seeing that the situation in Georgia is seriously bordering on a Third World War, I don't think Moscow will be looking to widen this conflict further by making Armenia jump into the fire. Also, the factors that forced Armenians to rise up against Turks in Artsakh do not currently exist in Javakhq. I'm sure officials in Tbilisi realize this. As a result, I don't think Tbilisi will be looking to incite its Armenian population any time soon. However, seeing just how irrational and idiotic the leadership in Georgia has been, I might be proven wrong...

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  • yerazhishda
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Originally posted by Armanen View Post
    You can bet if georgians react the same way the turks did in the early 20th century that this time we will have more than an ample response. It's one thing for official Yerevan to not assist Javakh's peaceful autonomous demands but another if georgians use force and start to kill hundreds, if not thousands of Armenians.
    Not to mention the political ammunition it would give the Russians to move further south to stay and "help out". I can see Medvedev giving a press conference now: "See! We told you that Saakashvili was crazy! We told you that the Georgians can't be trusted!"

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  • Armanen
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    You can bet if georgians react the same way the turks did in the early 20th century that this time we will have more than an ample response. It's one thing for official Yerevan to not assist Javakh's peaceful autonomous demands but another if georgians use force and start to kill hundreds, if not thousands of Armenians.

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  • crusader1492
    replied
    Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

    Originally posted by RSNATION View Post
    I did say before that they should bide their time but as it stands and the way things are turning out, it might be time for the Armenians in Javakh to make a move. I guarantee that the Georgians and their unholy alliance are planning something sinister there right now.
    I said before that this scenario (on a smaller scale) resembles the situation in the Ottoman Empire before the Genocide...

    A weakened Ottoman Empire loses lands

    At the same time, Armenians demand their rights

    Turks massacre them in a revenge minded reaction to prevent further loss of lands.

    vs.

    A weakened Georgia loses lands

    At the same time, Armenians demand their rights (in Javakhk)

    ...Will the Georgians be as barbaric as the Turks were in 1915?

    Judging what they did in Tskenvili, one can safely assume yes.

    The one difference in this scenario now is that Armenians have a state now that is capable of defending its compatriots.
    Last edited by crusader1492; 08-20-2008, 11:55 AM.

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