Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Looks like the Russians are getting a lot of abandoned Georgian gifts.
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Ignoring Gori arsenal would have been mad – Russian FM

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has criticised media reports on Wednesday which had claimed that Russian tanks were on their way to Tbilisi. Lavrov told a news conference that a Russian convoy driving away from Gori had been on a mission to safeguard weaponry abandoned by the Georgians – and had never been destined for the country’s capital.

“The weapons were ready for use, including the tanks,” he said. “It would have been mad to turn a blind eye to that and pass by the munitions. Anyone with bad intentions - a madman - could have jumped in a tank and started shooting.

“The Russian military were neutralising this arsenal. So, these tanks were driven away from Gori. The march was spotted, and CNN started trumpeting this across the world as breaking news - Russian tanks on the move to Tbilisi.”

Lavrov said he was disappointed that images of the convoy had been misrepresented to viewers and readers around the world. He added that the easy-to-access arsenal near Gori had to be dealt with.

“Reconnaissance troops had detected enormous amounts of weapons,” he said. “Military hardware, some 15 tanks, armoured personnel carriers, a lot of ammunition and explosives, not to mention small arms - the same amount of weapons was found near the city of Senaki.”

From http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/29001

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Independence first, talks with Georgia second - Abkhazia

Abkhazia’s Foreign Ministry says its principal condition of beginning talks with Georgia is Tbilisi’s recognition of Abkhazian independence. It also says that recent sessions of the UN Security Council have illustrated the absence of any possible security guarantees from the international community in case of military aggression against it.

The Abkhazian Foreign Ministry statement said: “Georgia’s actions, supported by disinformation by leading American and British media, once more confirm that Georgia was, and still is, considering the use of force in resolving the Georgia-Abkhazia conflict.

“Abkhazia considers it essential to keep a substantial contingent of Russian peacekeepers present on its territory, as only Russia can guarantee the preservation of the Abkhazian people and stability in the whole region.

“In particular the UN Security Council and the OSCE have proved helpless and incompetent in urgent conflict prevention.”

Currently, Abkhazia is a de facto independent state not recognised by any country. It proclaimed independence from Tbilisi in the 90s which resulted in a year-long war.

Abkhazia’s officials believe the independence of Kosovo earlier this year have set a precedent, and along with the outcome of the conflict in South Ossetia, it will be enough to provide a basis for a long-awaited resolution of the country's status.

From http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28991

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russian armour massed near Zugdidi-Reuters witness

ZUGDIDI, Georgia (Reuters) - More than 100 Russian armored vehicles were massed two km (1.5 miles) from the centre of Zugdidi, a major town in western Georgia, a Reuters witness said.
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"I counted 104 Russian army vehicles, including 40 armored vehicles, most of which are tanks," Reuters staff photographer Umit Bektas said by telephone from the city.

Bektas said their purpose was unclear.

He said the convoy included weapons such as rocket propelled grenades and was carrying Russian flags.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080814/...MQtsakL_lbbBAF

[Federate]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Russia: 'Forget' Georgian territorial integrity

GORI, Georgia - Explosions were heard near Gori on Thursday as a Russian troop withdrawal from the strategic city seemed to collapse. A fragile cease-fire appeared even more shaky as Russia's foreign minister declared that the world "can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity."

The declaration from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov came simultaneously with the announcement that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev was meeting in the Kremlin with the leaders of Georgia's two separatist provinces.

"One can forget about any talk about Georgia's territorial integrity because, I believe, it is impossible to persuade South Ossetia and Abkhazia to agree with the logic that they can be forced back into the Georgian state," Lavrov told reporters.

There were at least five explosions near Gori. It could not immediately be determined if the blasts were a renewal of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces, but they sounded similar to mortar shells and occurred after a tense confrontation between Russian and Georgian troops on the edge of the city.

The strategically located city is 15 miles south of South Ossetia, the separatist region where Russian and Georgian forces fought a brutal five-day battle. Russian troops entered Gori on Wednesday, after the two sides signed the cease-fire that called for their forces to pull back to the positions they held before the fighting started.

Georgia early Thursday said the Russians were leaving the city, but later alleged they were bringing in additional troops. Georgian government officials who had gone into the city for the possible handover left unexpectedly around midday, followed by a checkpoint confrontation outside Gori which ended when Russian tanks sped toward the area and Georgian police quickly retreated.

A Russian general in Gori had said Wednesday it would take at least two days to leave the city. Lavrov said troops were evacuating Georgian weapons and ammunition from a military base in Gori.

In Washington, a Pentagon official said U.S. intelligence had assessed early Thursday that the number of Russians in Gori was small — about 100 to 200 troops.

Some Georgian police said irregular fighters from South Ossetia had refused to leave Gori, where a BBC reporter saw them looting and burning Wednesday night.

Two planned U.S. aid flights arrived in the Georgian capital of Tbilisi late Wednesday and Thursday, carrying cots, blankets and medicine for refugees displaced by the fighting. The shipment arrived on a C-17 military plane, an illustration of the close U.S.-Georgia military cooperation that has angered Russia.

Besides the hundreds killed since hostilities broke out, the United Nations estimates 100,000 Georgians have been uprooted; Russia says some 30,000 residents of South Ossetia fled into the neighboring Russian province of North Ossetia.

Gori was battered by sporadic Russian bombing before the cease-fire, with Russia saying it was targeting a military base near the city. The city, on Georgia's only significant east-west road, is only 60 miles west of Tbilisi.

The Russian troops' presence in Gori was viewed as a demonstration of the vulnerability of the capital.

Russian troops also appeared to be settling in elsewhere in Georgia.

The Georgian Foreign Ministry said Russian troops remained in Poti, a Black Sea port city with an oil terminal that is key to Georgia's fragile economic health.

An APTN crew in Poti saw one destroyed Georgian military boat, about 20 yards long, two Russian armored vehicles and two Russian transport trucks inside the port. They were blocked from moving closer by soldiers who identified themselves as Russian peacekeepers.

Earlier Thursday, on Poti's outskirts, the APTN crew followed a different convoy of Russian troops as they searched a forest for Georgian military equipment.

Another APTN camera crew saw Russian soldiers and military vehicles parked Thursday inside the Georgian government's elegant, heavily-gated residence in the western town of Zugdidi. Some of the soldiers wore blue peacekeeping helmets, others wore green camouflage helmets, all were heavily armed. The scene underlined how closely the soldiers Russia calls peacekeepers are allied with its military.

"The Russian troops are here. They are occupying," Ygor Gegenava, an elderly Zugdidi resident told the APTN crew. "We don't want them here. What we need is friendship and good relations with the Russian people."

More here http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/...EsVb0pdvNbbBAF

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

I also see the similarities but I think there is one big differences from 1915 and 2008. First in 1915 there was no independent Armenia which could act to defend the interests of Armenians in the near abroad. At the very least Armenians from Armenia and even those from the Diaspora would come to the defense of Javakh's Armenians. Also, georgia has spent millions to try to portray itself has a shining beacon of democracy under attack by the the evil empire to the north, and not as many people as they would like are buying it. If they were to try to actually launch attacks on Armenians, not just cleanse us from Javakh as they have been doing, then they would have a lot harder time trying to sell their case even to the overly anti Russian "western" mainstream media.

You're right that Armenia is in a much better position to defend its compatriots. However, I do not put too much stock in the wester media covering a future conflict in a fair way. In other words, they don't care about Armenians or Armenian suffering. Look how they portrayed the recent events. They made it look like the Georgians are the victims even after they slaughtered 2000 S.Ossetians and raized their capital.

[Armanen]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Also, this whole scenario is reminds me of of what happened during the Genocide...the Ottoman Empire was losing lands and because they did not want to lose anymore they slaughtered Armenians in order to nuetralize the threat of losing land to what they saw as independent-minded Armenians.

Could this scenario play out again against the Javakhk Armenian...i.e. Georgia loses Abkhazia and S. Ossetia, so no they'll take their revenge on the "independent-minded" Armenians of Javakhk?

I also see the similarities but I think there is one big differences from 1915 and 2008. First in 1915 there was no independent Armenia which could act to defend the interests of Armenians in the near abroad. At the very least Armenians from Armenia and even those from the Diaspora would come to the defense of Javakh's Armenians. Also, georgia has spent millions to try to portray itself has a shining beacon of democracy under attack by the the evil empire to the north, and not as many people as they would like are buying it. If they were to try to actually launch attacks on Armenians, not just cleanse us from Javakh as they have been doing, then they would have a lot harder time trying to sell their case even to the overly anti Russian "western" mainstream media.

[crusader1492]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Good articles.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9816

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9826

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9788

So the authors of these three articles believe that the war between SO and georgia was planned from the get go by washington and the anglo-american/nato alliance. They further claim that this will be used to esculate tensions between nato and Russia. Do you guys think this is the case why or why not? And if so, what are the likely next "phases" of a nato-Russian confrontation?

I have actually thought about this too. Is is possible that the US knew what the outcome of this fight would be and they have coordinated plans to exploit the "unrest" to further their interests? In other words, did NATO create this tension in order to obtain an excuse to go after Russia? Who is really pulling the strings?

Also, this whole scenario is reminds me of of what happened during the Genocide...the Ottoman Empire was losing lands and because they did not want to lose anymore, so they slaughtered Armenians in order to neutralize the threat of losing land to what they saw as independent-minded/pro-Russian Armenians.

Could this scenario play out again against the Javakhk Armenian...i.e. Georgia loses Abkhazia and S. Ossetia, so no they'll take their revenge on the "independent-minded" Armenians of Javakhk?

...Armenian needs to be ready. Georgia already proved that they have the capacity for Genocide.

[HayotzAmrotz]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

the LTP's of the world will be back..richer and more powerfull. we have to be ready.

We have to be ready, indeed.

LTP & Co are actively brewing something in the hidden backyards, and it's definitely smells like trouble.

These traitors are what we should be really concerned about. While I think we are babysitting them way too much, on the other hand even the powerful patriots have to act within the law. In other words, as soon as LTP moves we have to strike.

[Armanen]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Good articles.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9816

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9826

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9788

So the authors of these three articles believe that the war between SO and georgia was planned from the get go by washington and the anglo-american/nato alliance. They further claim that this will be used to esculate tensions between nato and Russia. Do you guys think this is the case why or why not? And if so, what are the likely next "phases" of a nato-Russian confrontation?

[yerazhishda]

Re: Georgian-South Ossetian conflict

Saakashvili forgets about his people in media fever
source: http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/28963

Over the last few days Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili has thrown much of his effort into convincing the wider world that Georgia was the victim, not the instigator, of the military conflict in South Ossetia. But it seems the president has taken his eye off what's going on at home – a place where some of his own people now have nowhere to go.

On the international stage, Mikhail Saakashvili is still showing his face – flanked by Eastern European leaders, it's all image and bravado. The Georgian president says Russia is still the Soviet Union and he is its unwilling victim.

He's brought in a Belgium public relations firm to help build his image and keep foreign correspondents updated with e-mail alerts detailing the latest alleged Russian aggressions.

Refugee camps are the post war reality of Saakashvili policy. New refugees are bussed in by the hour.

Most people blame Saakashvili for starting the war but now when it's over he's nowhere around to help them rebuild their lives.

"Saakashvili is responsible. Who are we? Are we animals or people? I have no house because of him. My daughter's pregnant and I don't know where she is. I have nothing. Saakashvili is responsible for this. We're here because of him. And where are the georgian journalists to tell about this?" refugee Victoria Ivanadze said.

Both rich and poor have suffered from the outbreak of conflict in South Ossetia.

"Foreign investment has completely stopped. They say they'll come back, but it will be slow. It will take at least one year for us to build up to the level we were before the fighting. Our biggest problem is to bring back the trust of western partners – to convince them to trust the Georgian economy. I have nineteen factories and most of them are closed. I've lost millions of dollars," businessman Merab Kupunia said.

Meanwhile, all taxi drivers in Tbilisi says the same thing: “Saakashvili thinks too much about himself and not enough about his people”.