Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

[arabaliozian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

WHO IS A GOOD ARMENIAN?

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Every Armenian is a good Armenian in the eyes of some Armenians and a bad one in the eyes of other Armenians.

Anyone can define himself as a good Armenian by using his own criteria, in the same way that any Turk at the turn of the century could have defined himself as a good Turk for massacring infidel dogs in the name of Allah.

To qualify as a good Armenian, however, one must be perceived as such by another Armenian, and when I say "another" I don’t mean a member of the same party, church, group, club, village, or mafia.

Can a good Tashnak be a good Armenian in the eyes of a good Ramgavar or vice versa? That is the question.

[arabaliozian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

WRITING

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It is not unusual for an Armenian to trash the entirety of a writer’s work after reading and misunderstanding a single line. What is unusual is that, more often than not, such an Armenian will consider himself a competent literary critic, an honest man, a dedicated patriot, a defender of the faith, a first-class human being and a role model.

I write for adults, not children; but I am beginning to suspect some of my adult readers are the kind who hate to give up their childhood illusions.

To how many of my detractors I could say: You don’t need answers; what you need is attention - both public and medical.

Once upon a time when I was very young, naïve, inexperienced, and full of it, I wrote as if my opinion mattered. I still do but only when I am seized by an attack of megalomania, which may happen once or twice a year and last a second or two.

Nothing gives my detractors more pleasure than seeing me identify myself as an extremely minor and insignificant scribbler. These gentlemen have so few pleasures in life that they get a kick out of seeing someone reduced to zero.

[arabaliozian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

TOYNBEE ON NATIONALISM

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One reason Toynbee decided to be a historian, he tells us in one of his autobiographical books, is to answer the following question: "How had Human Nature prevailed upon itself to perpetrate the atrocities which Turkish hands had committed against the Armenians?"

Further down: "If the Turkish atrocities could be explained as anachronistic outcrops of a residual savagery in the hearts of recent proselytes to a Western way of life, how was a Western historian to explain the apostasy of Germans who were native-born children of the Western household?"

His tentative answer: nationalism.

Nationalism is Toynbee’s bete noire because it divides mankind by idolizing a fraction of it at the expense of the whole, fomenting territorial disputes, and reviving unsettled scores. It makes no difference whether it is Turkish, German, or Armenian nationalism. To say Turkish nationalists are guilty of genocide and Armenian nationalists are not is to confuse military inferiority with moral superiority. Evil does not recognize national barriers and given the right combination of circumstances we are all capable of committing unspeakable acts.

Mankind confronts two options today: war and total extinction on the one hand, and on the other, peace under a single power structure or world government.

Empires thus represent a step forward and nations a step backward: hence Toynbee’s pro-Ottoman stance.

[Virgil]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

if you don't care what the world thinks it may be because you prefer to live in a world of illusions and lies. propaganda is your favorite medium. you may fool fools but you cannot fool everybody. you may be a dupe but don't expect everyone to follow you.

yes, we have our own interests. but who is taking care of them?
who was taking care of us when we were being massacred, starved, and deported?

What propaganda? First, you are a intellectual midget. Second, if anyone is making lude generalizations under the banner of "constructive critisisim", it is you. Let me rerun the conversation. You said, "Ask odars about Armenians", in which, I reply, "I don't care what odars think", essentially, everyone has opinions of each other. Again, examples and counter-examples are meaningless, unless you have a statistical sample that validates those opinions, to me, they are hogwash. Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, I could careless what Americans or Canadians think of Armenians, for that matter, for 200 years they have been oppressors of both foreigners and the indigenous populations. Americans enslaved African-Americans for nearly 150 years, why should the burden of absorbing them fall on me and my people? And when has a mutually exclusive population taken the opinions of another mutually exclusive population seriously, as I recall, this is considered imperialism, to reduce your people into sheep that live and work for otars.

Finally, no, I don't care what they think, likewise, I do not think they care what, I, as a Armenian, think of them. There exists no illusion or "deeper meaning" in this assesment. And no, our leaders exist, they currently reside in Armenia, I support them and I surely will take their word over yours, any day of the week.

Ara, you live in the past, you need to wake up and smell the coffee before you die a bitter and lonely man. The fact of the matter is, even if all the leaders during the Ottoman period were corrupt, I would still opt to hold them in high esteem in the same manner Turks hold Ataturk in high esteem for the sake of "national security". People look to the past for strength, you take away their past, you take away their fighting spirit. I am well read in Armenian history, I certainly don't need a egotistical moron such as yourself to convince me of the historical bias that may exist. This bias exists everywhere, live with it and move on.

I don't have to criticize canadian leaders; they criticize one another all the time. only fascists equate criticicism with self-hatred.

NO, you are not criticizing them, you are insulting them. Let me give you a example, this is a act of criticism, "George Washington, although very brave in his efforts, failed to understand that the decisive moment in the battle of "xyz" was when the opposing army penetrated his flanks. Unable to ..." versus, "George Washington was a cheap plantation owner that also enslaved Africans for economic ends, he was, essentially, the modern day slum lord of the colonial Americas", do you see the subtile difference? The latter you are making huge generalization, while the previous, it sounds more schalorly, with in depth reasons as to why you hold opinions of the faults of George Washington, essentially, you are like the "National Enquiror" of the forum, while the rest, like Axel and Armenian, have some objectivity when making statements.

if you think my criticism is motivated by hatred, then i must conclude that you know nothing about armenian literature. armenian writers have been abused, rejected, starved, misunderstood, rejected, and betrayed to the ottoman and soviet authorities by cowards and dupes like you. Read Baronian, Raffi, Bakounts, Zabel Yessayan...read Voskanian, Zarian, Massikian...more armenian writers have been victimized by fascists than political leaders.
it seems to me you define patriotism as recycling the propaganda of those in power. that's not patriotism but brown-nosing. those in power have always needed dupes like you to deceive the majority that that they are in good hands.
fear of honesty and truth is the worst kind of cowardice. and the hardest thing for a coward is to admit his cowardice.

Dumbass, this is not about other Armenian writers, this is about your comments and the insult it brings to national pride. If some half-feed and malnutritioned Chinamen can understand how insulting national pride is hurtful to the will of the people, then, I am certain, a well feed welfare case such as yourself can see that what you do equates to insulting Armenians. Your a idiot, we know where we stand, and hell would freeze over before I apologize to a selfhating idiot like you. How many times over do you have to apologize to Armenians for your lude generalizations? I guess you have not thought about that one, maybe you should.

[Armenian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

Virgil, just keep reminding yourself that you are conversing with a self-hating, egotistical, senile, intellectual dwarf that has made it his life goal to blame his failings as a human being and a writer on his nation... Also bare in mind that Ara is attempting to 'guide' the discussion away from reality. Ara does not merely criticize our "leaders," we all criticize our leaders. Ara specifically attacks and belittles our national heritage, our national culture, our national history - simply, our national being. So, don't listen to his BS and don't fall for his manipulative antics. Go and read his endless crap about Armenians and you'll see what I mean. Thus, this is not about criticism, this is about destructive-demoralizing-insulting, attacks and lies against anything Armenian. And realize that no one can 'debate' or 'rationalize' anything with self-engulfed deranged ignorants like Ara and company. These garbageman of our nation only deserve a hard whip across the head and a good spit on the face.

A question: Does Ara Bozoian has children? If yes, I would like to know whether or not they appear on the Armenian radar...

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg219007.html

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS LIMITED IN ARMENIA

Lragir
Feb 1 2008
Armenia

The Human Rights Watch report for 2008 states that in Armenia the
reporters continue to encounter threats in their activities.

Among cases of violence the assault on Hovanes Galajyan, editor of
the Iskakan Iravunk Newspaper, is mentioned. The report also mentions
the arson of the cars of the owner of the Im Iravunk Newspaper and
the founder of panorama.am Ara Saghatelyan, and the founder of the
Football Plus Newspaper Suren Baghdasaryan.

The Human Right Watch report mentions the imprisonment of the editor
of the Yerevan Newspaper Arman Babajanyan, considering the sentence
as too severe.

The report also points to the closure of Gala TV, an independent
channel of Gyumri, for avoiding taxes.


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Note, I am not very fond of HRW. As far as I know, they do not genuinely recogize the Armenian genocide and within their power circles exist a prominent J-ewish neocon who is also simultaneously a prominent figure in the American J-ewish lobby.

But, who am I to dispute an Armenian media channel that relies on an HRW report re: limited free speech in Armenia to cast light on the perils journalists (writers) face - e.g, jail and violence.

Any comment Armenian? Do you realize you sound like an esh? You don't know even basic current events in your fatherland. Poor you.

You guys should really stop attacking Ara, you are only proving his points with each of your keystrokes. Its laughable.

If you believe he shall die a poor, self-hating fool, then ask yourself if he was your or any other of our elders, would you subject him or her to this?

Respect your elders.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg219007.html

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS LIMITED IN ARMENIA

Lragir
Feb 1 2008
Armenia

The Human Rights Watch report for 2008 states that in Armenia the
reporters continue to encounter threats in their activities.

Among cases of violence the assault on Hovanes Galajyan, editor of
the Iskakan Iravunk Newspaper, is mentioned. The report also mentions
the arson of the cars of the owner of the Im Iravunk Newspaper and
the founder of panorama.am Ara Saghatelyan, and the founder of the
Football Plus Newspaper Suren Baghdasaryan.

The Human Right Watch report mentions the imprisonment of the editor
of the Yerevan Newspaper Arman Babajanyan, considering the sentence
as too severe.

The report also points to the closure of Gala TV, an independent
channel of Gyumri, for avoiding taxes.


--------------------------------------------------------

Note, I am not very fond of HRW. As far as I know, they do not recogize the Armenian genocide. But, who am I to dispute an Armenian media channel that relies on HRW report re: limite free speech in Armenia and the perils journalists face - jail and violence.

Any comment Armenian? Do you realize you sound like an esh? You don't know even basic current event in your fatherland. Poor you.

You guys should really stop attacking Ara, you are only proving his points with each of your keystrokes. Its laughable.

If you believe he shall die a poor, self-hating fool, then ask yourself if he was your any other of our elders, would you subject him or her to this?

Respect your elders.

What are you trying to prove with this and when are you going to awnser to my question about your retarted commands. You come here and defend a person who insultes the country I was born in and it's leaders and evreything it stands for. He insultes it's culture it's heros who have died. Why does he have a right to say anything about Armenia, if he thinks he knows it better let him go it and to it better.

And than you make a retarted commatnt about how Armenia was created, you say Armenia was created becasuse the big powers in the world let us have country by acknolediging us. With that commant you lost the last bit of respect I had for you.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

"I should like to see any power of the world destroy this race, this small tribe of unimportant people, whose history is ended, whose wars have all been fought and lost, whose structures have crumbled, whose literature is unread, whose music is unheard, whose prayers are no longer uttered.
Go ahead, destroy this race. Let us say that it is again 1915. There is war in the world. Destroy Armenia. See if you can do it. Send them from their homes into the desert. Let them have neither bread nor water. Burn their houses and their churches. See if they will not live again. See if they will not laugh again. See if the race will not live again when two of them meet in a beer parlor, twenty years after, and laugh, and speak in their tongue. Go ahead, see if you can do anything about it. See if you can stop them from mocking the big ideas of the world, you sons of b-itches, a couple of Armenians talking in the world, go ahead and try to destroy them."

---William Saroyan

Mr. Saroyan described us as perpetual losers, embraced it and used it to empower us. Certainly, Mr. Saroyan was as wrong as Mr. Baliozian in describing us. He does not identify an nation of Armenia, he claims we lost all our wars when that is obviously not the case. But you wouldn't reduce him to a self-hating Armenian that writes trash would you or a hypocrit.

The concept of Armenians as perpetual losers, if that is what Ara is promoting which I am uncertain it is, has other Armenian sources in the modern era post WWI. One of them is renowned in Armenia, the U.S. and abroad. His name is William Saroyan. Is he trash, is he self-hating, is he degrading the purity of our nation? No. Obviously not. And neither is Ara.

You wouldn't disparage Mr. Saroyan would you? Because, if you did, you'd probably have your Armenian identity revoked in the same manner you have attempted to degrade Mr. Baliozian.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

Karo, I'm assuming you either lost all respect for yourself or had none before you lost that last bit of it for me.

Ara can say what he wants because it is a fundamental 'human' right to express onesellf.

Why do I have to answer your questions? I'm not your student. I've posed numerouse questions to Armenian, Virgil, Crusader1492 and Ara's other detractors including you, have any of them been answered? No. Just the same meaningless, unintelligible dribble.

One of Saroyan's most famous quotes implies that we are perpetual losers, did members of the Armenian community disparage him as a self-hating, liar?

We don't get to choose who gets to speak about us from within the Armenian community or without the community.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

Freaky you don't even understand what William saroyan is saying, he's saying that what ever happens Armenians will survive and nothing in this world can destroy us. That is what he's saying.