where from

[anileve]

Originally posted by Anonymouse noun: the conviction that the culture and interests of your nation are superior to those of any other nation
noun: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it

You can still love your culture, and people have thousands of years prior to the idea of nationalism which is consonant with CENTRAL GOVERNMENTS that rose out of 19th century.

You can either accept it for what its worth or continue insisting that somehow nationalism has provided all these wonderful things for culture.

Anon, this is my last post regarding this issue, since I feel that it has no relevance to this thread and is going of on a completely different tangent, and to preserve the original intent of this thread perhaps it’s best to make this into a separate thread that deals with this issue at hand.

Sometimes I feel like you disagree for the sake of disagreeing, obviously you tend to single out a selective portion of the message an individual is trying to convey to be able to create some sort of contradiction.

Once again let us redefine the term nationalism which was precisely what I have mentioned before and I don’t wish to argue on this any further, since once again you might filter some information and retrieve a certain fraction to construct a platform of contradiction.

Nationalism is usually used to describe 2 concepts:

1) the attitude that the members of a nation have when they care about their national identity. That encompasses common origin, ethnicity, or cultural ties and while an individuals membership in a nation is often regarded as involuntary, it is sometimes regarded as voluntary.

2) the actions that the members of a nation take when seeking to achieve some form of political sovereignty.
“ a nation often consists of an ethnic or cultural community, a state is a political entity with a high degree of sovereignty.”

Nationalism my dear, is a sense of belonging together as a nation. It also includes such feelings as loyalty to the nation, pride in it’s culture and history, and in many cases a desire for national independence. The “condition” that is also embedded in your own doctrines, whether you chose to resent it or not. While you have a tendency to always look at things from a point of view of a cynic, I should remind you that any theory or philosophy has a negative and a positive track, you chose to always view things one sided that gears more towards pessimism. I specifically stated that although nationalism has often been a cause of historical blood shed, one must not discredit it’s contribution to cultures in terms of literature, art, food and customs, which is clearly evident in the Armenian culture. Nationalism is reflected in every aspect of our culture, and if you deny this reasoning than once again I will come to a conclusion that you are simply filtering information to ignite an argument through distorting the concept that is inclusive of your theory as well.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve Anon, this is my last post regarding this issue, since I feel that it has no relevance to this thread and is going of on a completely different tangent, and to preserve the original intent of this thread perhaps it’s best to make this into a separate thread that deals with this issue at hand.

Sometimes I feel like you disagree for the sake of disagreeing, obviously you tend to single out a selective portion of the message an individual is trying to convey to be able to create some sort of contradiction.

Once again let us redefine the term nationalism which was precisely what I have mentioned before and I don’t wish to argue on this any further, since once again you might filter some information and retrieve a certain fraction to construct a platform of contradiction.

Nationalism is usually used to describe 2 concepts:

1) the attitude that the members of a nation have when they care about their national identity. That encompasses common origin, ethnicity, or cultural ties and while an individuals membership in a nation is often regarded as involuntary, it is sometimes regarded as voluntary.

2) the actions that the members of a nation take when seeking to achieve some form of political sovereignty.
“ a nation often consists of an ethnic or cultural community, a state is a political entity with a high degree of sovereignty.”

Nationalism my dear, is a sense of belonging together as a nation. It also includes such feelings as loyalty to the nation, pride in it’s culture and history, and in many cases a desire for national independence. The “condition” that is also embedded in your own doctrines, whether you chose to resent it or not. While you have a tendency to always look at things from a point of view of a cynic, I should remind you that any theory or philosophy has a negative and a positive track, you chose to always view things one sided that gears more towards pessimism. I specifically stated that although nationalism has often been a cause of historical blood shed, one must not discredit it’s contribution to cultures in terms of literature, art, food and customs, which is clearly evident in the Armenian culture. Nationalism is reflected in every aspect of our culture, and if you deny this reasoning than once again I will come to a conclusion that you are simply filtering information to ignite an argument through distorting the concept that is inclusive of your theory as well.

Nationalism and nations are a myth. I'm tired of getting into this discussion with people who can't see beyond what they want to see.

[anileve]

Originally posted by Anonymouse I'm tired of getting into this discussion with people who can't see beyond what they want to see.

I know what you mean, Anon!

[Anonymouse]

You should since you make the mistake of trying to assign nationalism to people prior to the inception of what we know as "nationalism" in the 19th century.

That right there is your blunder.

[anileve]

Originally posted by Anonymouse You should since you make the mistake of trying to assign nationalism to people prior to the inception of what we know as "nationalism" in the 19th century.

That right there is your blunder.

Please refer to my post above.

And no one was arguing with you, I was simply including both concepts in the definition, you seem to be obsessed with one in particular, which is fine, but what exactly are you arguing? I've included your theory in the definition. Besides "nationalism" was not fabricated by me, it was invented long before you and I and the concepts were cemented.

I am not taking a stand on whether I favor Nationalism or not, I am simply stating the concepts. You somehow turn it into more of a subjective issue. I personally try to stay clear of nationalism. What shall you choose to disagree with me on now? Please look closely and try to read between the lines and overanalyze, with a cynical approach preferably...!

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by anileve Nationalism my dear, is a sense of belonging together as a nation. It also includes such feelings as loyalty to the nation, pride in it’s culture and history, and in many cases a desire for national independence. The “condition” that is also embedded in your own doctrines, whether you chose to resent it or not. While you have a tendency to always look at things from a point of view of a cynic, I should remind you that any theory or philosophy has a negative and a positive track, you chose to always view things one sided that gears more towards pessimism. I specifically stated that although nationalism has often been a cause of historical blood shed, one must not discredit it’s contribution to cultures in terms of literature, art, food and customs, which is clearly evident in the Armenian culture. Nationalism is reflected in every aspect of our culture, and if you deny this reasoning than once again I will come to a conclusion that you are simply filtering information to ignite an argument through distorting the concept that is inclusive of your theory as well.

This is where I disagree with you, not where you define things. You assume I look at things from a "pessimisstic" point of view because why? I disagree that nationalism contributes to culture? Yes, most definitely nationalism provides too much pride in culture since it is based on exclusionist principles. I am not 'distorting' anything, in fact it is you who is 'distorting' perhaps unconsciously, that nationalism to be something it is not, sort of giving a noble ring to it. No one denies it is the foremost ideology in independence movements, but why? These 'independence movements' have no choice since they themselves are seceding from a 'nation state', they themselves must set up one, albeit on false premises, just like the party they are gaining 'independence' from.

Culture has existed prior to nationalism, therefore whether you have nationalism or not has no bearing. Only now do we define nationalism as 'including culture' since this gives the nationalists a sense of correction, since now they can include 'culture' within the framework of nationalism, they can point to any time in history and say 'Wooop look at that we have nationalism since we have culture there'. Nationalism is only designed as a political system to go hand in hand with the concept of 'nation' or 'nation-state' which is a relatively modern creation and ever since its creation human destruction has reached exponenets unimaginable in the past, like a domino effect, spread from Germany, and now encompasses the whole globe. By that token, I am not arguing for "going back to the past". I am merely pointing out the political system for what it is, a political system.

'Nationalism' hasn't contributed to Armenian culture, or any culture for that matter, it is and always has been the individuals that have made up the culture and have contributed to it. How a political system can contribute to anything is beyond me, maybe you can enlighten me. I don't see how that makes any relevance to what you are talking about, merely jammering about it because it has to be so.

'Nationalism' is in every part of our culture you say? So you are implying that without nationalism culture cannot exist, and with that I disagree. The only thing nationalism does is create a prism thru which we view all history and make ourselves believe that culture has always been a part of it, when in fact, it is nationalism that has been a part of culture, and only for the past 2 centuries or so.

If you care to view my thread on the "Armenian nation" in the history section you will see how your whole argument here pertains to the root of it, the nation, and how that itself is a myth.

[SexyAries]

Baron, yes i have i was there last year it is simply too good for words. I miss it there, i spent the best days of my childhood over there at my grandmas house, i still remember Peroshyani skizbe where you can smell the xorovats all the way from your house.