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Freewill?

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  • #1

    Freewill?

    This is truly a very interesting topic . I'm sure it will be an interesting puzzle for all of you.

    Who thinks they have freewill? Most do, right? Well, let's think about that for a second. If we had free will, why would we have to abide by certain supernatural laws, like the laws of nature for example, without wanting to? That is not the question I would like us to talk about in this thread though. I would like to talk about something more deep and confusing.

    Many scientists think everything that happens is just pretty much random! Birth, death, this entire WORLD basically along with all the little stars you see in the sky, the Sun, and everything else. Well I have an argument for them...

    How could people predict what could happen CENTURIES later? We're not talking about an easy prediction here, we're talking about a prediction that was made CENTURIES ago! So, if everything is just a random sequence, how could everything turn out JUST the way people like Nastradamus predicted?

    This argument presents us with puzzle then. How do predictions work, how do people see the future (near/far, doesn't matter), and wait for it ... where do they, the predictions, come from? I doubt people just thought of them whilst sitting on a log like Winnie the Pooh and poking their head, saying "Think, Think, Think" . I doubt it came from good thinking. And even if that's the case ... is that what happened CENTURIES ago? Is that rational?

    Does the world still seem so random? I doubt it. So if we agree that the world isn't random then who makes the choices? Who makes the rules? And why the hell must we follow them, like it or not?

    Most importantly, the question now is, do we have freewill? I'd say we do .. but it's very limited. We have just the right amount to help us make good or bad decisions in life and I'd say that's more then enough !

    Let's see if we can crack this puzzle guys. Here's a real challenge for all of you, including me.
    THE ROAD TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IS A LONG ONE!
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Freewill?

    Randomness or "luck" seem to be acceptable explanations for modern scientists whose theories seem to be based more on superstition and less on human intervention. I think we are able to control our own destiny if we harness the powers of the universe and work together to achieve goals that we set up for ourselves. For example, nuclear energy may not be the safest form of energy but it has proven to be the most efficient in terms of power output. Alternative energy such as solar or wind may be seen as viable but can they be used to achieve our goals? Or will solar and wind prove to be more expensive meaning more human energy and effort is required to be put into development than the return of energy in the end. I suppose we can put humans on treadmills to produce energy right? Are we becoming like hamsters on wheels because of our inability to control our own fate? Hmmmm.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDqDl...eature=related
    "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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    • #3
      Re: Freewill?

      A short and sweet answer ... we control our fate via our DECISIONS in life thanks to the bit of freewill we have! Basically, I think what me and you described was in many, if not all, respects ... Karma.

      If we agree that such a phenomenon exists then I'd say we create our own threadmills. Menk mer posnenk prorum KAM ltsnum no matter what action we take. If we agree with the phenomenon though then we hit a dead end somehow because then we'll have to think about WHO created that phenomenon and WHY the hell we have to live with it!

      Why not just doubt everything and move on ?
      Last edited by Sako; 07-07-2009, 04:59 AM.
      THE ROAD TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IS A LONG ONE!

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      • #4
        Re: Freewill?

        To make everyone's answer short, & to sum it up.
        Basically you have a choice do to what you do in life

        So think twice before you do it
        what looks & seems like fun may not be the right choice.
        Positive vibes, positive taught

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        • #5
          Re: Freewill?

          Originally posted by PepsiAddict View Post
          To make everyone's answer short, & to sum it up.
          Basically you have a choice do to what you do in life

          So think twice before you do it
          what looks & seems like fun may not be the right choice.
          You have some choices in life (looking at the big picture, not what you're going to have for lunch today or which movie you should go see) Certain people have more choices than others depending on which part of the world they live in and their socio-economic status. Work hard, play hard, die hard.
          "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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          • #6
            Re: Freewill?

            Finally you have started an argument I can be philosophical about.

            There is either:

            Hard Determinism = Everything is predetermined and we have no free will or choices

            Soft Determinism = We have choices but everything is still predetermined and we have no free will

            Compatiblism = We have choices, and limited free will, Free Will and Determinism are Compatible with each other

            Liberatarian = We have total free will and control over our lives

            Personally I take the comptatiblist view as I consider that there are some cases where we have free will and freedom of action, but that most aspects of our life are determined and what choices we have are determined by other choices we make.

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            • #7
              Re: Freewill?

              I think you exercise free will once you're able to reflect on what you've done in the past that's kept you in a deterministic loophole, and then say, "Now "insert your name here", you have a choice, which will you take?", and you have the choice of picking the one that's going to break the old cycle that's held you for so long, if only to create a new cycle in the future.

              Maybe freewill occurs when you can hop between the different deterministic cycles that put us in "decision-making autodrive" throughout our lives.

              Lets say I want to make choice C, but I'd never be able to make that choice yet because I neither am in the situation that allows me to make choice C, nor to even think of it as a choice, so I'm stuck into the cycle of picking A and B. I just pick between A and B, A and B for months because that's my world, A and B. But one day, fate takes a sledgehammer to me A and B world and makes a crack in it. Now, new things and ideas (choice C) are pouring into my life and I can use them to escape the A and B world. I have the choice, I can stay with my A and B world, or I can pick C and get out of there, and become part of a new cycle of consequences that pretty much determine how my day to day life is going to run.

              So, you can't escape the determinism, but when enough change occurs in your experience, you can pick which determinism you want. It appears there's a paradox, but imo, they compliment eachother because they work on qualitatively different levels.
              Last edited by jgk3; 07-07-2009, 09:00 PM.

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              • #8
                Re: Freewill?

                Finally you have started an argument I can be philosophical about.
                And I plan on starting many more. Put your New Zealand Thinking Cap on !

                By the way guys let's try facing my questions in a more straight forward way. But good points overall. And thanks for replying. This thread really gets you thinking.
                THE ROAD TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IS A LONG ONE!

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                • #9
                  Re: Freewill?

                  Originally posted by Anonymouse
                  So does this mean your thread was made in accordance with the prophecy?
                  There are those who think that life....has nothing left to chance
                  With a host of holy horrors....to direct our aimless dance

                  A planet of playthings....we dance on the strings
                  Of powers we cannot perceive
                  The stars aren't aligned....or the gods are malign
                  Blame is better to give than receive

                  You can choose a ready guide....in some celestial voice
                  If you choose not to decide....you still have made a choice

                  You can choose from phantom fears....and kindness that can kill
                  I will choose a path that's clear....I will choose free will

                  There are those who think that they've been dealt a losing hand
                  The cards were stacked against them....they weren't born in lotus-land

                  All preordained....a prisoner in chains
                  A victim of venomous fate
                  Kicked in the face....you cant pray for a place
                  In heavens unearthly estate

                  Each of us....a cell of awareness
                  Imperfect and incomplete
                  Genetic blends....with uncertain ends
                  On a fortune hunt....thats far too fleet...
                  "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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                  • #10
                    Re: Freewill?

                    Interesting poem, Kanada.

                    So does this mean your thread was made in accordance with the prophecy?
                    Which prophecy, lol? Dude's, I made this thread just to discuss something I had in mind (which I mentioned). Nothing more, nothing less. This isn't religious for crying out loud or anything like that. We're simply discussing freewill here!
                    THE ROAD TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE IS A LONG ONE!

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