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Supernatural Powers

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  • #21
    Re: Supernatural Powers



    Most of the time thinking outside the box is like this.

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    • #22
      Re: Supernatural Powers

      Some people definetly should stay in the box hehe.
      Hayastan or Bust.

      Comment

      • #23
        Re: Supernatural Powers

        Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
        Just because our brains have been wired to think the opposite is retarded. Nature in itself is supernatural.... without it, we couldn't exist or survive.
        Saying that we cannot survive without nature is absurd because we are part of the natural world, thus eliminating it would also eliminate us. Nature includes the universe, so without it there wouldn't be time or space, etc.

        Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
        Yes, you are a slave of nature... it controls you, you don't control it.

        No, you're trying to imply that supernatural would only exist in the form of a human defying nature.... which is where the concept of super heroes came from. I'm redefining the whole thought process. Backwards is relative.
        I think maybe you've got a different definition of supernatural than the rest of us.

        Supernatural refers to things that defy the laws of nature. Nature doesn't defy it's laws, so any supernatural claims, naturally (harhar), must come from humans.
        [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
        -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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        • #24
          Re: Supernatural Powers

          Originally posted by Siggie View Post
          Saying that we cannot survive without nature is absurd because we are part of the natural world, thus eliminating it would also eliminate us. Nature includes the universe, so without it there wouldn't be time or space, etc.



          I think maybe you've got a different definition of supernatural than the rest of us.

          Supernatural refers to things that defy the laws of nature. Nature doesn't defy it's laws, so any supernatural claims, naturally (harhar), must come from humans.
          In order for something to defy the laws of nature, it has to be above nature (governing it). Just as I stated how nature is above us (it governs us). If I define myself as a slave of nature (much like parent---> child ..... master--->slave) then anything above me is "super" since it is more powerful than I am. For something supernatural to exist below the dominion of nature, it would have to be chaotic.
          "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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          • #25
            Re: Supernatural Powers

            Originally posted by KanadaHye View Post
            In order for something to defy the laws of nature, it has to be above nature (governing it). Just as I stated how nature is above us (it governs us). If I define myself as a slave of nature (much like parent---> child ..... master--->slave) then anything above me is "super" since it is more powerful than I am. For something supernatural to exist below the dominion of nature, it would have to be chaotic.
            Isn't this an argument against the existence of the supernatural then?
            [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
            -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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            • #26
              Re: Supernatural Powers

              Originally posted by Siggie View Post
              Isn't this an argument against the existence of the supernatural then?
              No, it just means that all hell would break loose if such a thing occured.
              "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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              • #27
                Re: Supernatural Powers

                Anything that is supernatural is unfalsifiable and thus out of the scope of scientific evaluation. We all believe things that are not falsifiable by science as this example from Wikipedia shows:

                "For example, "all men are mortal" is unfalsifiable, since no finite amount of observation could ever demonstrate its falsehood: that one or more men can live forever. "All men are immortal," by contrast, is falsifiable, by the presentation of just one dead man." [source: Falsifiability]

                Just because an idea/proposition cannot be tested/observed by science does not mean it is not true. If the supernatural is outside the scope of science, science can never prove it to be either right or wrong.

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                • #28
                  Re: Supernatural Powers

                  Originally posted by yerazhishda View Post
                  Anything that is supernatural is unfalsifiable and thus out of the scope of scientific evaluation. We all believe things that are not falsifiable by science as this example from Wikipedia shows:

                  "For example, "all men are mortal" is unfalsifiable, since no finite amount of observation could ever demonstrate its falsehood: that one or more men can live forever. "All men are immortal," by contrast, is falsifiable, by the presentation of just one dead man." [source: Falsifiability]

                  Just because an idea/proposition cannot be tested/observed by science does not mean it is not true. If the supernatural is outside the scope of science, science can never prove it to be either right or wrong.
                  But sometimes it is within the scope because believers in the supernatural don't keep things comparmentalized like that. For instance, religious people believe god can influence things our lives, as such that is not involved in the natural world and within the realm of science.
                  [COLOR=#4b0082][B][SIZE=4][FONT=trebuchet ms]“If you think you can, or you can’t, you’re right.”
                  -Henry Ford[/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

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                  • #29
                    Re: Supernatural Powers

                    Originally posted by yerazhishda View Post
                    Anything that is supernatural is unfalsifiable and thus out of the scope of scientific evaluation. We all believe things that are not falsifiable by science as this example from Wikipedia shows:
                    Mainstream science says, "I want to work with only that which can be explained using the scientific method, I don't want to deal with anything else". This way, it hits two birds with one stone, 1. denying the existence of the supernatural, and 2. not having to deal with unfalsifiable claims of its existence.

                    Though this may be simply the expression of a methodology, it can influence our cultural values at a level not dissimilar from what any other cosmological system can.

                    Culturally, we've always interpreted reality in terms of the 'supernatural' and the 'natural'. Because we've often found that despite our highly honed skills in various human exploits, a hurricane or epidemic could still wipe us out. Thus, in acceptance of the fragility of our lives, we began to admit that... "Our lives are in God's hands", which can also be interpreted by the Atheist as "a system exponentially more vast and intricate than the vastly limited one we depend on for survival on the Earth."

                    The religious kind of categorization of natural phenomenon as supernaturally motivated has led humans to incorporate rites of sacrifice (including human), prayer and prostrations into their cultural values, so that they may engage their societies in full, increasing their power, for seeking harmony with the divine.

                    On the other hand...

                    Because the Atheist treats this system as only natural (despite his inability to account for all of its intricacies which can be forgiven... he's human afterall), he will try to address all the hazards of the world as part of a mechanical system, which he will do his best to discover and explain using things like the scientific method, and will surround himself with people and a lifestyle that reflect his worldview.

                    While the religious person (particularly the creationist) treats the world as natural too, he categorizes the natural as a subset of the supernatural. The primordial cause of all that created the natural comes from the supernatural. And so, these persons, also deprived of the capacity to explain all natural existence, like the atheist, will nonetheless try to cope with this human limitation. However, they will find recourse to God in order to meet this personal need, and establish a bond through faith with this primordial cause, knowing that he himself comes from it and is thus "His child". He will interact with the "infinite, unknowable, almighty, etc..." as though he had family relation to it, and so rather than using the scientific method to interact with the questions of reality and the universe, he incorporates the archetype of the human family.

                    This is fine... but I think we start to see why scientists and creationists come to blows over cosmological differences: the scientist appears as a "bastard" who doesn't know his own primordial father, and the creationist appears as a childish "believer of fairy tales, like the Easter Bunny" (though the namecalling could get more harsh if the Atheist is well versed in theology).

                    All in all, so long as no one gets hurt, I don't see a problem in people claiming the existence of the supernatural.
                    Last edited by jgk3; 10-13-2009, 06:18 PM.

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                    • #30
                      Re: Supernatural Powers

                      Originally posted by Siggie View Post
                      But sometimes it is within the scope because believers in the supernatural don't keep things comparmentalized like that. For instance, religious people believe god can influence things our lives, as such that is not involved in the natural world and within the realm of science.
                      You're referring to people who believe in a personal god (like an imaginary friend) as opposed to those whose beliefs are based on personal experience. Personal experience isn't in the scope of science even though in essence, an individual's beliefs may have been formed using logic but may not be able to be reproduced using the scientific method (requires social engineering). Science is rather too comparmentalized.
                      "Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it." ~Malcolm X

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