Question on

[Muhaha]

Am I seeing it wrong or is the woman's head and mouth covered? What's up with that?

[Catharsis]

Re: Question on "We Are Our Mountains" structure

Am I seeing it wrong or is the woman's head and mouth covered? What's up with that?

It is the traditional Armenian woman's costume of both Syunik and Artsakh (as well as adjoining Armenian provinces). It has nothing to do with the Islamic burka or the hijab if that is the implication of the question.

[Muhaha]

Re: Question on

Yeah, I originally thought it had to do with Islamic influence, and then I figured it must have to do with traditional Armenian dress, but then I had never really seen Armenian dress that covered the mouth, so then I started to go back to wondering if it had to do with Azeri-Turkic or even Iranian influence.

I'm still a little confused because even in the picture you provided, the mouth of the lady is uncovered.

[Catharsis]

Re: Question on

It is not Islamic derived in my humble opinion, because the traditional Muslim woman's headdress is quite different.

I see certain parallels with medieval European woman's headdress which included a veil underneath the hat covering most of the head and neck.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Question on

It is not Islamic derived in my humble opinion, because the traditional Muslim woman's headdress is quite different.

I see certain parallels with medieval European woman's headdress which included a veil underneath the hat covering most of the head and neck.

You will not find such costumes in Armenia before the Islamic period - so it probably is from Islamic influences. Though even during the Islamic period female clothing could still be very free indoors. There is an famous 18th century painting by Hovnatanian of a group of Armenian women in Tiflis. They are wearing very revealing low-cut dresses (daring even by today's standards) . That clearly was unacceptable in the more chauvanistic Soviet-era so in the well-known "Armenian costumes" book the image is reproduced in a censored state, with their cleavage made less revealing. The censorship is even worse in another book, "The Costumes of Armenian Women" - in it the original low-cut dresses are made into ones that start at neck-level.

[Catharsis]

Re: Question on

You will not find such costumes in Armenia before the Islamic period - so it probably is from Islamic influences. Though even during the Islamic period female clothing could still be very free indoors. There is an famous 18th century painting by Hovnatanian of a group of Armenian women in Tiflis. They are wearing very revealing low-cut dresses (daring even by today's standards) . That clearly was unacceptable in the more chauvanistic Soviet-era so in the well-known "Armenian costumes" book the image is reproduced in a censored state, with their cleavage made less revealing. The censorship is even worse in another book, "The Costumes of Armenian Women" - in it the original low-cut dresses are made into ones that start at neck-level.

Could be, you have a point about ancient Armenian costume looking different (Mithraic garb for both men and women - which I also prefer as the national costume of choice). However, overall Arabic woman's costume looks quite different and so does the later Iranian one.

Behold, the portion of the censored Hovnatanian painting!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Question on

Behold, the portion of the censored Hovnatanian painting!

Alas, I don't have a scan of the uncensored original to post.

[Catharsis]

Re: Question on

Alas, I don't have a scan of the uncensored original to post.

I have to admit I am tempted to see it now, and it is not in my Hovnatanian reproduction album.

[Mos]

Re: Question on

what is with obsession of Armenians to be islamic and middle-eastern??? All islamic powers tried to whip us out and oppress us and now you want to be one of them? Georgians have had same history but they don't go about trying to be islamic and middle eastern...

[Flamenkita]

Re: Question on

I researched this in Zangezur in the 1990's, and found a few women who still practiced the tradition of mouth-covering into old age. I would venture to tell you what I learned from them, but then there will be a huge fall out and people on this forum who haven't the wildest clue on the theory or method of anthropology will rain down fire upon my head. So, I will refrain from doing so. Let me just say, however, that it does have nothing to do with Islam. It pre-dates Islam. It is an indigenous practice for which there is pictorial evidence (in a manuscript illumination) as early as the 13th century, and written evidence as early as the 5th Century. It was neither imported nor copied nor imposed on Armenians from their Islamic neighbors. Armenians tended to enjoy relative cultural freedom under the Arabs. Also, there is no evidence that the hijab is an early Islamic practice. There is a lot written about facial covering practices all over the East and Mediterranean region. The Armenian practice is just one version.