Debate over origins of Christianity

[jgk3]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

The whole Khazar xxx thing being the origin of Ashkenazi xxxs was promulgated by a couple of scholars in Israel in the 70s. It was just one speculative theory without evidence to support it, and it was shot down by many serious scholars at the time. But for whatever reason, this idea has grown like wildfire since then and has triggered an identity crisis among xxxs, and a sort of, "told'ja you're foreign freaks who aren't the real Israelites" by any xxx hating group in the world.

First of all, the Khazars adopted Judaism at the royal level, just for political reasons (to be distinct from other religions, allowing the royal class to perhaps purge the religious institutions of the more native religion). Their actual relations to xxxs worldwide are shrowded in mystery, and it seems their folk religion was never lost, otherwise we would find lots of traces of Judaism in this area in the general population (not restricted to xxxs living there) in this area.

Secondly, there is no linguistic evidence to support that Ashkenazi xxxs have a Turkic origin, there aren't any Turkic elements in any of their vernaculars, which would be strange if they indeed came from the Khazars. In fact, the popular yiddish has been identified as having a very similar cousin in the Germanic family spoken by Christians, in Bavaria. Linguistically, it seems that a dialect from this area somehow won out over all Yiddish speaking xxxs, and later became identified as "xxx talk" by the Northern Germans, who've never experienced this particular Bavarian dialect before.

Genetically, there isn't much to support a Khazar origin either, but this has been masked by idea that it's normal for the xxxs (postulated by some to come from the Khazar empire) to later intermarry and get a vast amount of European blood in them to compensate for their current genetic profile. Unfortunately, as I said, it would help if we had some sort of linguistic evidence to support this. It would also help if Ashkenazi xxxs traditionally recognized an origin from the Khazar empire, in their folklore and rich historical narrative, which they don't do. Furthermore, there isn't any clear archaeological evidence to support this claim either.

I'm glad to be addressing these topics on the xxxs, if only to distill our conception of Judaism to a level that can actually work with the thread topic.

[Haykakan]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

I disagree with your assessment of the attraction of xxxs towards positions of power at the expense of gentiles as being rooted to their religious doctrine of having a jealous God. I much more readily relate it to the fact that they, like Christians in the Ottoman empire, were second class citizens in Europe. They were the scorn of Christians for not being taxable by the church, and for being able to engage in "usury" without any reprisal as it was not considered a mortal sin outside of Christianity.

They were barred from guilds, and yet played an important role in providing loans with interest in order to squeeze the wealth out of other non-taxable elements of Christian Europe, such as the nobility and the clergy. After the xxx got his payoff, the king would purge him and eat up his sinful profits. The xxx would forever be sitting on a fence, and had no allies for a long time. And so, they were less fascinated by the metaphysical questions brought forth by Christian scholasticism, abhored ideas of serving the same Christian honour which periodically purged them of their property and security, etc... This can leads them to two things. 1. Rejecting, or de-emphasizing all romantic spiritual ideals except the hope to return to their homeland someday. 2. Being attracted to schemes that overtime, give them secure wealth and influence in a hostile sea of gentiles. And finally, just as we, in our church, think of Astvads as the God of Armenians to whom we can pray to protect our homeland (and when we're in a more angry mood, pray to bring justice for the genocide), xxxs too can have their own sentiments expressed as elements in their worship of Yahweh.

Not all xxxs bought into this tenacious resistance to the gentiles, many converted to Christianity, many gave up Zionism and hated everything about their xxxish heritage, and mostly during Nazi Germany they were re-exposed for their xxxish heritage, being placed back into it due to their genetic history, by force. Europe was good at purging its xxxs for a long time until the Age of Enlightenment occured, and Western Europeans, tired of killing eachother over religion (the 100 years war), became softer and more interested in commerce as a means of keeping the peace (Nazi Germany in the 20th century represented a brief return to a Europe where the effects of the Age of Enlightenment did not reign, and thus, xxxs can be traditionally purged again). Doctrines such as Adam Smith's advocacy of self interested behavior in commerce which is protected from being meddled by religious orientation, came to the fore, and of course, xxxs, who are always keen on anything that brings them a sense of security, jumped on this trend and must have done everything in their efforts to promulgate it. A great zeal came out of them now, in a Europe that was willing to emancipate its people and protect private property of its common citizens. They took good advantage of it. xxxs used their small population but vast network in order to rise as a merchant class, so that their role in the world would not be restricted to the labour class, as was the case for the majority of the population who now had to readjust from being a common serf, to an urban labour class citizen, a scheme that is ongoing everywhere in the globalizing world. xxxs did not dabble with this transition for too long, they managed to get the WASP institutions eliminate the quotas for non-WASPS, and got educations and positions which greatly increased their representation in all the most influencial domains of the economy. They were willing to do the hard work in this transition period from the 30s-50s in North America, and they, as an ethnic group, succeeded and are enjoying the fruits of this endeavor today. The more recent Chinese and Indian immigrants are following the same example, though they are different as the sheer mass of their population and the dynamics of their respective nations also play a role in their perception and behavior towards of their "odars".

Now, about this "brotherhood" crap being different between Christianity + Islam, vs. Judaism, I don't see your point. Muslims help muslims, kill or convert infidels. Christians help christians (within their own sect of course), or serve the church hierarchy, or (evangelicals) convert heathens through socio-economical benefits (often after meddling/sabotaging the native ecosystem/economy in the name of civilization and democracy).

xxxs, similarly help xxxs, and will screw anyone else over in order to achieve this end. They are willing to accept converts, but it's not their main agenda since they're not like Islam and Christianity which, for historical reasons, enjoyed a wealth of numbers over a billion people each, whereas Judaism was always based on the earthly nation of Israel, a scorn for all its neighbours and occupiers. This global scorn never left them. So, instead of prioritizing getting another body to fill the prayer stalls in their weekly religious ceremonies, they prefer to have influence over other groups who will bother to do that, so that they don't have to contend with them in numbers using their meagre xxxish population.

In the end, perhaps the specialness of the xxxs as being "the most narcissistic" is just our envy for not being able to crush their rivalry to our own quest for prominence. Even though Christianity has brought large shares of the world population into their fold, its fragmented secterian population has never been able to experience the success of xxxs per capita in commerce... and thus excellent international and highly mobile influence in politics, a most prized weapon by any religion or race.

If you want to beat the xxx, you have to beat them at their game. There is no royal class left to purge the xxxs when they've reached their threshold of desirable "usurious" behavior. Whining about their religion and how it makes them especially evil is not going to take us far, it will just trigger alarms for them if we ever actually are able to seriously challenge their positions of influence. Personally, I am also quite wary of some xxxs and their schemes I've called them out on or have been able to identify from afar. I think we should keep a sharp eye and a simple mouth, it will unsettle our rivals, and yet they will not be able to lay a hand on us. Let them slip up in hesitation, and we check mate them.

The soft spot in your heart for religion seems to override your sense of logic. You readily give religion credit for anything good (in many of your previous posts) and utterly deny its negative influence even when it is so obvious as it is in the case of judaism. You are trying (unsuccessfully) to blame the narccistic tendencies on everything but religion. We Armenians have been purged, conquered, barred from guilds, taxed to deathh........but somehow we never developed a concept of the "gentile". Sure we call people odar or otar but that just means foreighner and its a word every languadge has vs "gentile" which takes on a whole different meaning. Narcissism is very obvious in xxxish culture, even they don't deny it. The link between their religion and their culture of narcissism is also very obvious, there is no need to make up excuses. The problem with them being narcisstic is that they dont care who or how many get hurt along the way as long as they get what they want. There is nothing envyable about such a society which is rooted in selfishness and racism. It would be very wrong to get power the same way they got it and i want nothing of the sort for my people. Mind you that i did not need religious teachings to come to this conclusion. There is no need to play their game we can do it our own way.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

Hating religion isn't going to make Judaism go away... Christianity is one way to fight its dominance.

[Haykakan]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

Hating religion isn't going to make Judaism go away... Christianity is one way to fight its dominance.

Thats like replacing colitus with hemoroids. They are both a pain in the ass(perhaps one more then the other). Christianity is not as narcistic as judaism but it has been and continues to be a big vehicle for justifying all sorts of discusting things(mass murder, torture, quireboys that walk funny... ). There are minor differences but pretty much all religions are crap that brainwash you and take your money while promising you stuff a 5 yearold would recognise as bullxxxx.

[Sip]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

Lol ... well said.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

Thats like replacing colitus with hemoroids. They are both a pain in the ass(perhaps one more then the other). Christianity is not as narcistic as judaism but it has been and continues to be a big vehicle for justifying all sorts of discusting things(mass murder, torture, quireboys that walk funny... ). There are minor differences but pretty much all religions are crap that brainwash you and take your money while promising you stuff a 5 yearold would recognise as bullxxxx.

That depends on your understanding of religion. There is a difference between organized and independent religion. Any organization eventually leads to mass corruption. Religion or lack of it hasn't produced a single government that wasn't involved in murder, torture, conspiracy, etc. Power corrupts, religion makes one aware of mankind's selfish nature which is what most religions teach except, of course, the narcissistic ones.

[Haykakan]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

That depends on your understanding of religion. There is a difference between organized and independent religion. Any organization eventually leads to mass corruption. Religion or lack of it hasn't produced a single government that wasn't involved in murder, torture, conspiracy, etc. Power corrupts, religion makes one aware of mankind's selfish nature which is what most religions teach except, of course, the narcissistic ones.

Your understanding of religion is pretty much irrelavent actually. They all lead to pretty much the same sheethole. Even the most nonviolent ones like hinduism will be used to justify totally barberic crap. If as you say power corrupts then religion becomes the tool of choice to spread this corruption-not to fight it. All religions claim to have answers for you but when those answers are proven wrong over and over again do they own up and say we were wrong? Hell no! Instead they try to pass laws to force crap like creationism down your throat by force instead. Or worst yet they go back and change the whole freakin story alltogather. All religions may not be equal but they are all destined to be crap. They all stem from the fact that we humans are not comfortable with not knowing everything and we will do things like make up complete fairytails so that we can pretend to know things when we dont. I guess a mature person is the one who realizes that he will never know everything and instead of believing fairytales he/she tries to get real answers to some of the questions on his/her mind.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

Your understanding of religion is pretty much irrelavent actually. They all lead to pretty much the same sheethole. Even the most nonviolent ones like hinduism will be used to justify totally barberic crap. If as you say power corrupts then religion becomes the tool of choice to spread this corruption-not to fight it. All religions claim to have answers for you but when those answers are proven wrong over and over again do they own up and say we were wrong? Hell no! Instead they try to pass laws to force crap like creationism down your throat by force instead. Or worst yet they go back and change the whole freakin story alltogather. All religions may not be equal but they are all destined to be crap. They all stem from the fact that we humans are not comfortable with not knowing everything and we will do things like make up complete fairytails so that we can pretend to know things when we dont. I guess a mature person is the one who realizes that he will never know everything and instead of believing fairytales he/she tries to get real answers to some of the questions on his/her mind.

Nah, Greed is the tool of choice. Fear is what those in power instill into those they want to control. Geee, doesn't anyone watch star wars? lol

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

[Haykakan]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

Nah, Greed is the tool of choice. Fear is what those in power instill into those they want to control. Geee, doesn't anyone watch star wars? lol

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

I wonder what leads yoda to look like that? I am gona guess radiation but some religious dude will say its caus he wacked off too much as a teenager...

[KanadaHye]

Re: Debate over origins of Christianity

I wonder what leads yoda to look like that? I am gona guess radiation but some religious dude will say its caus he wacked off too much as a teenager...

That must explain why Armenians have a tendency to get bald...