Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Kecharis Monastery: Is the Church Now in the Restaurant Business?

http://hetq.am/eng/articles/3546/

18:39, August 11, 2011

Ani Hovhannisyan
Levon Hayrapetyan

A fancy restaurant is now being built practically on the doorstep of the Kecharis Monastery in Tzaghkadzor and it would appear that the Armenian Church is not opposed to the eatery.

It's being built by Davit Ghazinyan, son of Yerevan State University Legal Faculty Rector Gagik Ghazinyan.

Ghazinyan only needed one day to get the architectural plans officially approved. During the past two weeks the construction work has proceeded at such a fast pace that it's already half completed even though the project hasn't been approved by the Tzaghkadzor Municipality.

We were told, however, by the Ministry of Urban Development that such a permit is necessary.

Tzaghkadzor Mayor Garoun Mirzoyan confirmed as much to us during a convestaion we had with him.

In fact, Mayor Mirzoyan said that his office had fined the contractor 400,000 AMD for going ahead with the illegal construction and demanded that all work immediately stop and that the site be put back to its original profile.

Despite the protestations of the municipality, nothing has been done.

"I understand that the land has been leased but we haven't been presented with any such documents. That's why we went ahead a slapped them with a 400,000 AMD fine. Had they shown us such a document the fine would have only been 200,000 AMD," said Mayor Mirzoyan.

When we asked the mayor why construction is continuing even after the fine, Mirzoyan said that work had indeed stopped as of July 18 and that the sides were now in negotiations for the restaurant to be dismantled.

On August 6, we visited the construction site and videotaped what we saw. Indeed, work hadn't stopped but was continuing at a fast clip.

Given that Tzaghkadzor is a small town and that the mayor and other town officials must have surely noticed construction of the restaurant from day one, the question arises as to whether the 400,000 fine isn't merely for show.

It can even been argued that the municipality and the restaurant owner have entered into some prior arrangement to let the construction continue until the proper paperwork is obtained.

Even the Kotayk Regional Authority made some noise at first, issuing a directive that the construction be halted. They haven't said anything since, however.

We even got in touch with the Holy See of Etchmiadzin to see what the Armenian Church had to say on the matter.

We spoke with Father Vahram Melikyan, the Press Officer at Etchmiadzin, who promised to get back to us that same day.

It turns out that Father Melikyan was officially on vacation the following day and couldn't be reached.

It took us several days to track down Father Shahe, who was temporaily taking over his duties.

Father Shahe told us that the Tzaghkadzor Municipality was misinformed and that a lease document in fact did exist but that work had been halted until an approval permit was issued by the Monuments' Preservation Committee.

Thus, according to Etchmiadzin, the construction of the restaurant is indeed legal.

When we pointed out to Father Shahe that Hetq reporters had recently visited the site and that construction work was continuing, the clergyman responded – "I don't understand. Are you saying that a priest of the church, the press officer's stand in, is telling lies?"

We then tried to get in touch with Serzh Arakelyan, who runs the Monuments' Preservation Agency at the Ministry of Culture, to see if they had issued a go-ahead for the construction or not.

We also wanted to ask if he was aware that workers at the site had unearthed some buried artifacts.

Arakelyan's response was, "Investigations are underway. I'll have definite answers to these questions once they are completed."

[Christina]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

You have amazing whit and brilliant fast thinking! Great sense of humor!

History: Many rulers were also spiritual leaders or in connection with the Church in representing God on Earth--
as Tzar Nicholas II saw himself. The Great Louis of France "The Sun King" saw himself as only answerable to
God.
Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte crowned himself! This caused such a outcry from the Pope and Vatican.
the Pope was the spiritual leader allowed to "crown and anoint" Kings.
Emperors were seen in the Church to sit with the Pope or Patriarch in the grand services where everyone
was dressed to the hilt. Chandlers and candles all light and gold and icons all over the place.
Talk about amassed wealth.

The Bolsheviks came to power and the committee went over all the Romanov's and Nobility's grand collections
and sold them off. Many great ladies of powerful men, like the Astors, Vanderbilt's bought up these gems
at ridiculous prices that we can only gasp at today.

There was a old man from a Russian village interviewed and he said: "He did not see God-But he saw the Tzar!"

The grand procession of all the great ones. The Patriarch of Russia in the grand procession of Tzar Nicholas's
coronation was wearing all the gold and glitz and grandeur of Russia.

Another interesting from a great house that also had similar behavior:

Article in Los Angeles Times, Monday, Aug. 2, 1999
Mystery: 300 -yer-old Fortune Missing: Henri d'Orleans, the late count of Paris and pretender to the French throne.
$ 650 million in castles and land. Children rebuffed by top tribunal. Vast estate vanished. He was 90 years old. There was a amazing sapphire and diamond tiara full paure of necklace, brooch, earrings, bracelet, that was either auctioned off, unless I am mistaken, or something happened to it. Article states "Once, Henri was detained at the Swiss border carrying a ruby-and-diamond necklace that had belonged to Marie Antoinette, Louis XVI's guillotined queen. He later sold it to the Louvre for $ 1 million."

Article states he did not get along with his children. (Who knows what the real story is), and that he cut them out of his will. There was the mention that all the Bourbon branches wanted to make peace.

There is alot of this. But I agree: It is more horrible when a Church leader does this. More is expected of them. They are held
too a higher standard and this goes to explain why alot of religious people stop attending church or become cynical.

What the Lord and Apostles stated in the Bible we all know. I guess reality and Bible verse are different realities.

It squanders the history and pride of a nation when when such things are done. The people are cheated of their rightful
historic connection to the past.

[Armanen]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

You have a peculiar sense of allocating responsibilities.

I agree with you that
should be a high priority for Armenia.

What I take issue with you is you expect a relatively small community in some foreign country to remind
his Holiness that maybe there is a (serious) social problem and do something ( ?? say a few words now and then ??)
to try and change harmful attitudes in society.

Shouldn’t this be a bread and butter duty of the church.
Show their presence in society forcefully spreading the moral message.

Instead they spend time and resources meddling in community issues fuelling conflict and division.

Isn't that lack of leadership, isn't that lack of purpose.

No, I think you and your ilk are misguided. You wish to see the church weak and de-centralized. I want the church to be centralized and player a larger role in Armenian life, in and out of Armenia.

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

You have a peculiar sense of allocating responsibilities.

I agree with you that

... do more to combat abortion in Armenia and also encourage Armenians to have more children,.....

should be a high priority for Armenia.

What I take issue with you is you expect a relatively small community in some foreign country to remind
his Holiness that maybe there is a (serious) social problem and do something ( ?? say a few words now and then ??)
to try and change harmful attitudes in society.

Shouldn’t this be a bread and butter duty of the church.
Show their presence in society forcefully spreading the moral message.

Instead they spend time and resources meddling in community issues fuelling conflict and division.

Isn't that lack of leadership, isn't that lack of purpose.

[Armanen]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Instead of writing a petition to ask the AAC to do more to combat abortion in Armenia and also encourage Armenians to have more children, they are petitioning about this. No wonder we are not doing well in many respects.

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Armenian Apostolic Church of Switzerland Petition

Summary

We, the undersigned, petition His Holiness Karekin II to reverse current policies that pertain to the centralization of control and unilateral decision making of local church matters. We ask that the traditional democratic principles of our Armenian Apostolic Church be restored and preserved. This request includes: renewing respect towards and adherence to the principle of separating spiritual matters (responsibility of clergy) from structural, financial, administrative, and legal matters (managed by laity); establishing a constructive practice of dialogue with our communities and all believers therein; and listening to our faithful in their wish to choose their own church status and priest.

For the Petition details follow the link

http://www.keghart.com/Petition_AACS_En

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

Let's not forget an earlier example of losing (or selling!) your moral compass and getting away with it: Patriarch Yeghishe Derderian. Amongst his many sins, in 1967 he stole dozens of medieval Armenian manuscripts from the library of the Jerusalem patriarchate, and then tried to sell them at Sotheby's auction house in London! The whole thing was hushed up by the Armenian Church and he actually remained the Jerusalem patriarch until his death in 1990. Until recently, I wondered how it was hushed up, but recently I was talking to someone who knew about the incident and he told me that rather than getting the auction completely stopped (which would mean admitting the manuscripts had been stolen), the manuscripts were bought privately by the Armenian Church and then returned to Jerusalem. This avoided the patriarch being arrested for attempting to sell stolen property. The auction catalogue has since become a collectable curiosity.

I was reminded of this because one of Derderian's probably ill-gotten treasures is on ebay. Item 270759511340 - "antique C1811 box from the personal collection of Patriarch of all Armenians for 30 years - Yeghishe Derderian. Hand made box with solid Gold and 4 green Emeralds on the cover and solid Silver on the bottom part". Buy it now for $4,900.00 (or maybe for $2,900.00 if nobody else bids).

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

In its issue of May 14, 2011, the newspaper Nice-Matin, as part of an investigation covering two full pages on the actions of the Russian mafia on the Riviera, including several involving Armenian nationals, reveals that the former priest of the Armenian Church in Nice, Vatche AYRAPETYAN, is currently the subject of an indictment. Among the cases concerned, are particularly two recent cases of trafficking in counterfeit currency and a prostitution ring involving the "Armenian Mafia" that including some of the perpetrators of violent intimidatory acts against the church leaders of Nice.

.....The church has became a lawless zone, deterritorialized like an embassy! Sunday after Sunday, the frightened faithful have totally deserted the church. About all this, the Parish Council has regularly met and informed the Catholicos in person, as well as the Primate and the Diocese of France. But our cries of "Help!" remain unanswered.

The Armenian church in Nice, a nest of the Armenian mafia, controlled by intimidation and beatings?

They are getting more sophisticated.

Control of the parish church is not by replacing the priest but actually get on the parish council.
You only need enough members to be obstructive and undermine the process.

Create divisions within the council and within the community.
The frightened faithful and deserted Church helps.

The seal of their success will be lack of strong willed community leaders.
Very much an uphill struggle.

Of coarse the behaviour of the Primate and the Catholicos is despicable .

Clearly they are voting with their (in)actions.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass?

The Armenian church in Nice, a nest of the Armenian mafia, controlled by intimidation and beatings?

In its issue of May 14, 2011, the newspaper Nice-Matin, as part of an investigation covering two full pages on the actions of the Russian mafia on the Riviera, including several involving Armenian nationals, reveals that the former priest of the Armenian Church in Nice, Vatche AYRAPETYAN, is currently the subject of an indictment. Among the cases concerned, are particularly two recent cases of trafficking in counterfeit currency and a prostitution ring involving the "Armenian Mafia" that including some of the perpetrators of violent intimidatory acts against the church leaders of Nice.

.....The church has became a lawless zone, deterritorialized like an embassy! Sunday after Sunday, the frightened faithful have totally deserted the church. About all this, the Parish Council has regularly met and informed the Catholicos in person, as well as the Primate and the Diocese of France. But our cries of "Help!" remain unanswered.

Full article (in French): http://www.armenews.com/article.php3...recherche=Nice

Or just a case of move along ... nothing to see here.

FRENCH DIOCESE OF ARMENIAN APOSTOLIC CHURCH NOT IN CRISIS

The French Diocese of the Armenian Apostolic Church (AAC) continues its
mission of preserving spiritual, cultural and national values of
French Armenians in spite of the obstacles posed by certain forces
and persons whose aim is to weaken the Diocese.

The French Diocese of AAC issued a statement regarding media reports on
developments in the church community of Nice. The document says that the statement by former parish council of Nice is untrue.

"The statement attempts to present that the French Diocese is in a
"critical and alarming state". We confirm that it is not true. We urge
members of the former parish council of Nice to stop their destructive
activities. We call on them to promote a healthy spiritual atmosphere
in life of Armenian believers in Nice instead of misinforming the
Armenian community," reads the statement issued by church council of
the French Diocese, Armenian Apostolic Church.

Original article in French: http://www.armenews.com/article.php3?id_article=70376

[londontsi]

Re: Have our spiritual leaders lost their moral compass

.

.
The course of the Armenian Apostolic Church is parallel to the course of the Armenian nation.

The Church has a heavy duty in both spiritual and national sense.

Dangers are real and big, No room for complacency.

This is a perspective from one of our spiritual leaders.

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ye8ntYTN4

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bDpq3QvOc4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX6Z1l0Alhc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL