How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Kanadahye you are as skin deep as they come. Like you realy do not think religion had anything to do with the genocide? Then why were all the chrystians killed but not any of the muslims? Armenians, greeks, asssyrians.. all chrystians-dead or ran of but the kurds who were muslim were not harmed they were instead used ,even paid to kill us. Even now you hear about chrystians being killed in turky just because they are chrystians. This is typical argument style of religious folk - they throw a bunch of nonsense at you hoping something will stick.

I'll ask you a simple question then. If Muslims want to wipe all J3ws off the face of the Earth like the media has us believe, why weren't any of the Ottoman J3ws targeted during WWI? Why were J3ws safely migrated to Iran during WWII?

You're leaving out the important parts of the puzzle and that is class. The Kurds and Turks that participated in carrying out the genocide were poor, they had nothing to lose and everything to gain when given the opportunity to kill, loot and steal when lawlessness broke loose due to war.

Armenians lost property, land and most importantly... gold.

You can't tell me that they all woke up one day after centuries of cohabiting on the same lands and decided to go on a killing spree.

(1)math guy
(2)Yoda
(3)Spock

Of the three I thought I could get that past Spock, so apparently you ain't Spock.
I was hoping to make the point that logic does not trump all.
I do think I deserve a beer for trying though.
Cool sword and nice swordsmanship.
Artashes

Logic does not trump all. It certainly doesn't get a guy women either

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

They been going on killing sprees all along. Learn about the Hamidian massacres. There is a alliance between the turks and xxxs even back then. Class or no classthe fact remains that only the chrystians were killed. There were plenty of poor or lower class armenians to and using your argument they would have been spared but were not. Lives was the most important thing armenians lost-not gold.

I'll ask you a simple question then. If Muslims want to wipe all J3ws off the face of the Earth like the media has us believe, why weren't any of the Ottoman J3ws targeted during WWI? Why were J3ws safely migrated to Iran during WWII?

You're leaving out the important parts of the puzzle and that is class. The Kurds and Turks that participated in carrying out the genocide were poor, they had nothing to lose and everything to gain when given the opportunity to kill, loot and steal when lawlessness broke loose due to war.

Armenians lost property, land and most importantly... gold.

You can't tell me that they all woke up one day after centuries of cohabiting on the same lands and decided to go on a killing spree.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

They been going on killing sprees all along. Learn about the Hamidian massacres. There is a alliance between the turks and xxxs even back then. Class or no classthe fact remains that only the chrystians were killed. There were plenty of poor or lower class armenians to and using your argument they would have been spared but were not. Lives was the most important thing armenians lost-not gold.

The Hamidian massacres was due to government wanting to encroach on Armenian autonomy. No matter where Armenians are in the world, we don't like to be governed or taxed. Greeks, same thing... that is why the Greek government can't collect enough taxes to sustain a proper government. Class was the reason for motivating uneducated Turks and Kurds to participate in the Genocide. That wasn't the reason why there was an assault on all Christians. Keep in mind that the Empire was larger than what is Turkey today and only those Christians on particular land was forced out of their homes.

From the Armenian point of view, lives were the most important thing lost but from a thief's point of view, there was visions of gold running through their heads.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Your attempts to absolve religion of being a tool for genocide is futile. Regardless of why the genocide started it was obvious that religion had a lot to do with justifying and carrying out such action. Your arguments always try to absolve religion of the eviles it inflicts on humanity and always paint a rosy picture of how wonderful chrystianity is. It is very much like the conversations we had about god where if something bad happens well that was because of the devile or because of what people did but when something good happens well that is gods work.. If you are going to credit the bad things to humanity then why not the good thinngs to? People like pepsiaddict like to ware blinders and only see the good (even when it is bad) that religion does but if you take off the blinders the farce that is religion quickely falls apart along with many other farces in society. Taking off the blinders is the key to human selfrealization. You will never reach you potential while looking at the world through blinders. There is a movement now to privatize public education which is the method coorporations are going to use to keep those blinders on people and to stop them from challanging the special interest government system we in the USA have. It does not matter which of the two parties take power-theyboth want you wearing blinders. Blinders are easy to ware because they give people a sense of comfort-if i pretend not to see the bad then it wont effect me as much.. and yeh that may be true - it may feel better to be blind but it will invariably lead to a far worst situation for those who choose to be blind.

The Hamidian massacres was due to government wanting to encroach on Armenian autonomy. No matter where Armenians are in the world, we don't like to be governed or taxed. Greeks, same thing... that is why the Greek government can't collect enough taxes to sustain a proper government. Class was the reason for motivating uneducated Turks and Kurds to participate in the Genocide. That wasn't the reason why there was an assault on all Christians. Keep in mind that the Empire was larger than what is Turkey today and only those Christians on particular land was forced out of their homes.

From the Armenian point of view, lives were the most important thing lost but from a thief's point of view, there was visions of gold running through their heads.

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

As opposed to 21st century social experiments?

I am reading Anna Karenina and interestingly enough, Tolstoy called a lot of what's been said are traditional values we should preserve "old-fashioned" in 1873. :-| So, it would appear these ideas may not be novel 21st century inventions.

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

I am reading Anna Karenina and interestingly enough, Tolstoy called a lot of what's been said are traditional values we should preserve "old-fashioned" in 1873. :-| So, it would appear these ideas may not be novel 21st century inventions.

If you want novel ideas, I suggest We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. It is generally considered to be the grandfather of the satirical futuristic dystopia genre. It takes the totalitarian and conformative aspects of modern industrial society to an extreme conclusion, depicting a state that believes that free will is the cause of unhappiness, and that citizens' lives should be controlled with mathematical precision based on the system of industrial efficiency created by Frederick Winslow Taylor.

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

If you want novel ideas, I suggest We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. It is generally considered to be the grandfather of the satirical futuristic dystopia genre. It takes the totalitarian and conformative aspects of modern industrial society to an extreme conclusion, depicting a state that believes that free will is the cause of unhappiness, and that citizens' lives should be controlled with mathematical precision based on the system of industrial efficiency created by Frederick Winslow Taylor.

He came a few decades later. My point is not to express value judgments here about the social and political commentary, but just that these are not new ideas because the literature reflects the society in which it was conceived and written.

[Artashes]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

I cannot remember book or author but do recall the point .
Tracing the rise of ancient civilizations, each one seemed to realize that the needed to claim a "Devine" authority. In one case I recall the ancient or earliest Philippines civilization that the initial ruler became aware that china was utilizing "Devine right" as the operating mode and so copied that to get the masses of people to do his will. This author traced this concept throughout early ancient startups of first civilizations.
It seems that people before formal organization had a sense of the Devine and to claim to be "the chosen one" was a way to get the masses of people to follow the one who desired power.
Artashes

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

And many Christians circumcise. Even if it was just a J ewish and Muslim practice it still proves my original point that religion often compels normal people to do stupid and cruel things.

Circumcision is largely practiced in America since it has a large J3wish influence in the hospitals. Christians in the old countries didn't typically circumcise their babies. It's not that common among Christians in Canada either. I know this because I used to work with wh0res

Seriously though, circumcision is a requirement of any male entering the military due to long periods of having little or no access to water.

[Eddo211]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Turks made the men drop their pants to see if they are Christian......many circumcised for that reason.