How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Bear with me while I dig out some books.

Sure, thanks!

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[Armat]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Studies are showing that much of the Old Testament is probably based on fact.

Faith in itself is a powerful force, the problem being that this same faith has been used by governments, from ancient times, as a means of controlling the population through fear of eternal damnation etc.

I attend church but with open eyes, I consider the Apostolic Church as the mortar which holds the building blocks of the nation together. Individual bricks can be strong and build a "dry-stone" wall but a bonding agent is surely preferable. The importance is to use the church for it's positive impact.

If you had excepted faith as just that faith outside logic and science then sure even some people still have faith that Santa exist however once you say "scientific facts then it gets all muddy.
People did not start from Adam and Eve! Noah flood is just another story retold from Assyrian folklore.There are no real evidence Moses even existed.No evidence xxxs migrated from Egypt.
It goes on and on.There is nothing logical nor scientific about any of these.
Religion is just that belief system.

Post those facts please

[yerazhishda]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

People did not start from Adam and Eve! Noah flood is just another story retold from Assyrian folklore.

Does the Orthodox Church say there was?

There are no real evidence Moses even existed.No evidence xxxs migrated from Egypt.

The existence of the Torah is huge evidence that Moses existed.

Let's play 'devil's advocate' (no pun intended lol) and say that xxxs did not in fact migrate out of Egypt. Is that what they Orthodox Church has believed to be the purpose of the Moses story? i.e. just to establish some street cred regarding the Bible. If not, then why not?

It goes on and on.There is nothing logical nor scientific about any of these.
Religion is just that belief system.

Is science the be all/end all of knowledge? Can morality be arrived at through experimentation and observation? Note that morality is not the same thing as human nature. Even if you explain that sociologically humans tend to go against their human nature because of societal reasons, is that the be all, end all of all moral choices?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Does the Orthodox Church say there was?



The existence of the Torah is huge evidence that Moses existed.

Let's play 'devil's advocate' (no pun intended lol) and say that xxxs did not in fact migrate out of Egypt. Is that what they Orthodox Church has believed to be the purpose of the Moses story? i.e. just to establish some street cred regarding the Bible. If not, then why not?



Is science the be all/end all of knowledge? Can morality be arrived at through experimentation and observation? Note that morality is not the same thing as human nature. Even if you explain that sociologically humans tend to go against their human nature because of societal reasons, is that the be all, end all of all moral choices?

It is not about morality here if it was then you could have a point but this is about historical correctness. And the fact remains there is no proof that xxxs were ever in Egypt. Does that mean everything in the OT is fake? No, start a little bit before David and end a little bit behind the Persians. The rest you can read for guidance and what ever you want but don't use it for historical references.

[Sip]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Yes, faith. Is that so bad after all?

Lol ... I have been pretty negative on "faith" and faith-based beliefs but I have to say an interview I saw on tv a few days ago started to change my mind. They were interviewing this group of people that got off the sinking Italian cruise ship into a life boat ... here is everyone panicking and going nuts ... these guys decided to huddle and pray.

First I thought what a bunch of morons ... but then I started thinking if the difference is between panicking and causing harm to others vs getting some peace through prayer (even as stupid as that whole act is), there is some value to it. Of course I personally would never find any peace from that kind of action because I certainly know better. But if you are dumb enough to think prayer can help you, then maybe it is not such a bad thing after all! It was all a sort of amazing revelation to me ... sort of like God was telling me all this hehehe.

[Sip]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

But I have to add thought that my epiphany was rather short lived because then I started thinking about all the cases where people tend not to take useful actions and pray instead ... like people that choose to pray rather than seeking medical attention for their young child (or themselves) for example.

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

But I have to add thought that my epiphany was rather short lived because then I started thinking about all the cases where people tend not to take useful actions and pray instead ... like people that choose to pray rather than seeking medical attention for their young child (or themselves) for example.

Aaaaand ctl-a and delete...

[yerazhishda]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

But I have to add thought that my epiphany was rather short lived because then I started thinking about all the cases where people tend not to take useful actions and pray instead ... like people that choose to pray rather than seeking medical attention for their young child (or themselves) for example.

So using your logic...

I used to think Armenians were good because I saw that they are a very hospitable people, very intelligent and give much cultural value to the world, but then I saw that there are certain Armenians who are involved in Insurance fraud and the like, so therefore all Armenians and Armenianism is bad?

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

So using your logic...

I used to think Armenians were good because I saw that they are a very hospitable people, very intelligent and give much cultural value to the world, but then I saw that there are certain Armenians who are involved in Insurance fraud and the like, so therefore all Armenians and Armenianism is bad?

No, because he wasn't talking about people or some trait about the people (especially one that's not chosen like ethnicity).
He was talking about a specific behavior and if we stretch it, then belief about that behavior. He's not making a statement about all believers, all Christians, or even all Armenian Christians.

[yerazhishda]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

No, because he wasn't talking about people or some trait about the people (especially one that's not chosen like ethnicity).
He was talking about a specific behavior and if we stretch it, then belief about that behavior. He's not making a statement about all believers, all Christians, or even all Armenian Christians.

Some people use atomic theory to advance our knowledge about science and how the works, but some "stretch it" and use it to make atom bombs, therefore atom theory is bad.

It may be crude, but I fail to see how it is a bad comparison.