How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Yet you believe that an invention of man created it all.

Of course, you would be one to believe there is no life form more intelligent than you.

[Siggie]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Okay, this reductionist argument is crap and I, for one, am sick of it.

How can you say that you don't believe something can come from nothing and then argue about where the single-cell organism came from and then EXPLAIN (supposedly) that a creator must have done it. How is that any explanation at all? It doesn't even address your OWN criticism. Who created the creator? Where did this infinitely complex (must be to create all of the universe, right?) creator come from?

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

The typical answer seems to be well since you dont have all the answers i am going to go with the crappy answer regardless of how stupid it is. Btw there are some cool advances in physics lately but i am sure they were only discovered by gods will..

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Okay, this reductionist argument is crap and I, for one, am sick of it.

How can you say that you don't believe something can come from nothing and then argue about where the single-cell organism came from and then EXPLAIN (supposedly) that a creator must have done it. How is that any explanation at all? It doesn't even address your OWN criticism. Who created the creator? Where did this infinitely complex (must be to create all of the universe, right?) creator come from?

We can't think in definitive terms when dealing with the existence or non existence of a superior being that most likely, if exists, doesn't take the same form as us. We can only form certain degrees of doubt from knowledge and personal experiences. If interested, Theology studies the questions of the existence, nature and attributes of God, and God's relations with man (that includes wo-man).

Back to the questions at hand:

I said humans physically can't create something from nothing (we need building blocks).

For us, that single-cell organism might be complex. For a more intelligent being, it might be very simple. Intelligence as we know it, varies in degrees.

You are also correct in stating that this being would have to be infinite like the universe.

It is not of our concern where this creator came from, in fact it has no bearing on our lives because we form our lives from the choices we make (or others make for us). Let's assume that this being rules over us by omnipotence and omniscience yet we're completely oblivious by its existence. That does not change the choices we have to make to form our lives.

What does have a bearing on our lives is whether or not we believe in the moral implications of our actions which lead us to or from salvation and free will. If you don't believe in the existence of forces that do not want you to be free to choose and from those choices find salvation, then you are most likely living for the interests of those forces.

If you're looking for historical evidence of whether or not Christ existed, there is probably more evidence in the world around you than you can find in any literature such as the Bible that has most likely been doctored over the millenniums.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

This sounds like the political situation of the day more then anything else..Nothing you said here is new nor interesting..dude you should maybe go into comedy caus your funny when your not talkin about bs. A good example of the bs that religion is was displayed the other day. I pick up my son and my neighbors kid from the bus stop daily and the 10 yearold asked me who i am voting for and i said i dont know and thats when she said that her family is voting for romney because obama supports killing babies. I thought to myself that this is a great example of how the bs that is religion goes from generation to generation regardless how big the bs contained within it. As long as there are people who take fairytales as doctines for life - we will continue to suffer the curses of ignorence, racism, fanatasizm etc.. I wonder if that girl will ever have the chance to question the bs that her parents filled her head with.
"If you don't believe in the existence of forces that do not want you to be free to choose and from those choices find salvation, then you are most likely living for the interests of those forces."

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

This sounds like the political situation of the day more then anything else..Nothing you said here is new nor interesting..dude you should maybe go into comedy caus your funny when your not talkin about bs. A good example of the bs that religion is was displayed the other day. I pick up my son and my neighbors kid from the bus stop daily and the 10 yearold asked me who i am voting for and i said i dont know and thats when she said that her family is voting for romney because obama supports killing babies. I thought to myself that this is a great example of how the bs that is religion goes from generation to generation regardless how big the bs contained within it. As long as there are people who take fairytales as doctines for life - we will continue to suffer the curses of ignorence, racism, fanatasizm etc.. I wonder if that girl will ever have the chance to question the bs that her parents filled her head with.
"If you don't believe in the existence of forces that do not want you to be free to choose and from those choices find salvation, then you are most likely living for the interests of those forces."

I think for yourself and most Americans alike... getting the F*** out of that country is freedom and salvation

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Not true. Just ask the people of the middle east how free they feel. There is no escape that is why i make it a point to educate from within. Canada is a good example of how there is no escape because politics in that country more and more mirrors the politics in the USA.

I think for yourself and most Americans alike... getting the F*** out of that country is freedom and salvation

[KanadaHye]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

Not true. Just ask the people of the middle east how free they feel. There is no escape that is why i make it a point to educate from within. Canada is a good example of how there is no escape because politics in that country more and more mirrors the politics in the USA.

True but the people are aware of that and there isn't nearly as much tension between people of different backgrounds. Discrimination against race by citizens is virtually non existent. It's just the rednecks and the Conservatives in government that I'd consider as racist.

[Haykakan]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

There is not as much tension because class inequality is much less in Canada then in USA. Also government provides people with more things they need to live then in USA. All of this said i do believe we are drifting off topic here. The relevant point i was making was that religion is the perpetuation of bs along generations and like the little girl i used as an example many people are caught up in it not because they came to that conclusion on their own but because it was pounded into them from an early age and they probably will never be able to approach the issue in a rational manner and this bs will continue like it has for thousends of years. I am saying that this bs needs to stop!

True but the people are aware of that and there isn't nearly as much tension between people of different backgrounds. Discrimination against race by citizens is virtually non existent. It's just the rednecks and the Conservatives in government that I'd consider as racist.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: How Much of the Bible Must Be Historical to Believe?

It came from exploring the world which already existed. Humans can't create something out of nothing.

Just because you state that something cannot come from nothing does not make it necessary for that something to have been created by a god. Even if you could prove it was created by a god, it does not prove that this god cares about us, or that he is inherently good or evil. It does not prove that any of the so-called prophets actually communicated with this entity. Sorry Pepsi that means you too.

The mechanics of the universe do not depend on there to be the hypothesis of a god or a creator. The universe functions just fine without these assumptions.

In fact, the only time god is invoked is when we reach the limits of our knowledge. We used to say that the universe revolved around earth, that the sky and heavens work mysteriously, therefore created by god. Then we invented telescopes and saw that we actually revolve around a tiny sun in a tiny galaxy of the universe. This discovery was done with great trouble and great resistance from religious people who saw this as an affront to their beliefs. Cry me a river.

We used to think we were created by god in his image, until we found bones of our ancestors and realized that modern humans are the product of millions of years of evolution. This is still being resisted by many religious organizations, again because of their sensitivity and narrow-mindedness. So belief in god does not explain anything about the universe - It actually makes us comfortable with our ignorance which hinders our progress as a species.

The noted astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson gives a great lecture on how god is always invoked whenever us humans reach the limits of our knowledge. Definitely worth a listen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1te01...eature=related