Can We Trust the Bible?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

How can one trust a book that calls a bat a bird, I am just saying. How can you trust a book that gets the basics wrong to get complex things right?
Also the bible, both old and new testament have been edited a couple of times already throughout the ages. If it is the word of god or even inspired by god why has it been edited?


Just saying, I do not see any ice giants around, do you?

[Cory]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

How can one trust a book that calls a bat a bird, I am just saying. How can you trust a book that gets the basics wrong to get complex things right?
Also the bible, both old and new testament have been edited a couple of times already throughout the ages. If it is the word of god or even inspired by god why has it been edited?

You should try actually reading the article before making claims already debunked by the original thread. It only makes you look silly, just saying.

5. THE BIBLE’S AMAZING SCIENTIFIC ACCURACY AND FORESIGHT

Of course many critics of the Bible would disagree that the Bible is scientifically accurate. They point to verses that say things like “the sun stood still” in Joshua 10:13 or John’s reference to “the four corners of the Earth” (Rev. 7:1). And they conclude that the Bible teaches that the Sun revolves around a flat, four-cornered Earth.

Well, they are overlooking the fact that the writers of the Bible were not writing a textbook on astronomy. They were describing things as they appeared to the eye (as was the case in Joshua 10) or employing normal figures of speech, as was the case with John’s reference to the “four corners of the Earth.”

And we, living in this scientifically advanced age, still do the same thing! We don’t wake up early in the morning, throw open the Eastern window and say, “What a beautiful Earth revolve!” No. We say, “What a beautiful sunrise!” Technically speaking, that is unscientific terminology. Meteorologists tell us on the nightly news what time the “sunset” will be. We don’t accuse them of being unscientific. They’re using simple, straightforward language to describe the way things appear.

When the apostle John referred to the “four corners of the Earth” in Revelation 7:1 he was using a figure of speech to describe the extremities of the land in the four cardinal directions: North, South, East and West. And we still use this figure of speech today. News agencies boast about how they have sent out their reporters to the four corners of the Earth to track down their stories.

So keeping this in mind (that the writers of the Bible described things in simple terms as they appeared to the eye, and that they employed figures of speech–metaphors, personification and such) does away with many of the alleged scientific inaccuracies in the Bible.

Now, granted there are some other passages of Scripture that appear to be out of sync with modern day scientific theories. The most obvious is the atheistic theory of naturalism and its sidekick spinoff theory of evolution. These theories suggest that everything that exists came into being from nothing and by nothing and then evolved via a mindless series of natural causes. Yes! The Bible, that says God created the universe, the Earth, and all its myriad of life forms, is out of sync with that. But when it comes to known, testable, verifiable facts, the Bible has been found to be in perfect harmony with the way things really are, which is amazing when you think about it because as you know:

The Bible was completed 2,000 years ago, long before the invention of microscopes, telescopes, satellites, and all the other technological marvels that have allowed us to investigate our Earth and the universe. The fact that the Bible was written so long ago and yet does not contain any scientific errors, might be considered a miracle in itself. Why? Without exception, every ancient religious writing has certain unscientific views of astronomy, medicine, hygiene, and so on.

For example, the Hindu Vedas teach that the Earth is flat and triangular. They also teach that earthquakes are the result of elephants shaking their bodies underneath the ground. They also claim that civilizations live on the back side of the moon and that there are cities on the Sun. I get hot just thinking about that.

The Qur’an 18:86 says that the Sun sets in a muddy spring. The Qur’an says, "when he reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring.” You could get away with an unscientific statement like that in certain parts of the world in the seventh century.

The Bible steers free of these kinds of errors. But not only that, it makes known amazing facts about our world and the universe thousands of years before scientists discovered that they were actually true. Allow me to share with you a few examples:

A. The Sun

In contrast to the Qur’an, the Bible teaches that the Sun is actually on a circuit through space. Writing of the Sun in Psalm 19:6, David said, “Its rising is from one end of heaven, and its circuit to the other end.” For many years critics scoffed at this verse, claiming that it taught that the Sun revolves around the Earth. Scientists at that time thought the Sun was stationary. However, it has been discovered in recent years that the Sun is in fact on a circuit through space, just like the Bible says.

B. The Shape of the Earth

Job 26:10 says God has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters at the boundary of light and darkness. This boundary between light and darkness is where evening and morning occur. The boundary is a circle. Why? The Earth is round. Another verse that speaks of a circular shaped Earth is Isaiah 40:22: “It is He [God] who sits above the circle of the Earth." Isaiah wrote that between 740 and 680 B.C. That was at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested in his book On the Heavens, that the Earth might be a sphere.

C. The Suspension of the Earth

Before Isaac Newton discovered gravity, Hindus believed that the Earth rested on the back of an elephant who stood on the back of a turtle that was swimming in a great endless sea. The Greeks believed that the mythical god Atlas carried the Earth on his shoulders. What did the Bible say? In one of the oldest books in the Bible, Job said in Job 26:7, “He [God] hangs the Earth on nothing.” Scientists did not discover that the Earth hangs on nothing until 1650.

D. The Stars

Before the invention of the telescope, man actually believed that the stars could all be numbered. People were so confident that the stars could be numbered that they drew up star charts with all the stars named and numbered. The Greek astronomer and mathematician Hipparchus (190-120 B.C.) said there were exactly 1,026 stars. The astronomer and mathematician Ptolemy (c. 85-A.D. 165) said there were 1,056 stars. The German astronomer Johannes Kepler (1571-1630) counted 1,006. When Galileo (a devout Christian) pointed his telescope to the heavens in 1608, he discovered that these previous counts were way off and that the Bible was actually right. What had the Bible said?

God said in Jeremiah 33:22, “The host of heaven [a reference to the stars] cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured.” God says, the stars cannot be numbered. In fact, trying to do so would be about as futile as trying to count the grains of sand floating around in the sea, obviously an impossible task. Jeremiah wrote that more than 2,000 years before Galileo made his discovery.

Today, with the help of powerful telescopes, scientists tell us that the universe contains approximately 100 billion galaxies containing approximately 200 billion stars each. Carl Sagan (1934-1996), the world famous astronomer, said, “The total number of stars in the universe is greater than all the grains of sand on all the beaches of the planet Earth.” (Cosmos, p. 196). Wow! Think of the thousands of beaches that exist on each of the world's seven continents. That's a lot of stars. Scientists tell us that there are enough stars for every single living person today to own more than two trillion stars each! Surely the host of heaven cannot be numbered!

Now all of these statements in the Bible regarding the universe, the stars and the Earth raise a question:

How did the authors of the Bible know these kinds of things? Were they taking wild guesses?

I don't think so. I think their perfect accuracy rules that out, especially when you consider the fact that there are dozens of statements like these in the Bible.

Well, the Bible tells us how they knew these things in 2 Peter 1:21. It says there that "Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” That is to say, God, who knows all there is to know about the universe He created, superintended (came along side) the writing of the Bible to make sure that what He wanted written, was written.

You can remember these first five evidences with the acronym F.A.C.E.S.

3. THE BIBLE’S INTERNAL CONSISTENCY

What do I mean when I speak of the Bible’s internal consistency? I am talking about the Bible’s internal harmony. From the first book of the Bible, Genesis, to the last book, Revelation, the Bible is absolutely consistent in what it teaches.

SKEPTIC: “Why is that an evidence of divine origin? There are plenty of books that are internally consistent!”

I agree. Back in the nineties I worked at a surfing magazine. And we put out an internally consistent magazine every month. Does that mean then that the authors of our different articles were writing down words inspired by God? No. I can assure you of that!

SKEPTIC: "Well then, what makes the Bible any different than some other book or magazine that is internally consistent?"

Glad you asked. I'll share with you seven factors that make the internal consistency of the Bible an amazing evidence of its divine origin.

A. The Bible addresses life’s most controversial questions.

At the surfing magazine, we wrote about who won the latest surfing contest, surf wax, sunscreen. Pretty trivial matters looking back on it all now. But these are not the type of questions that the authors of the Bible wrote about. No. They tackled the big questions of life:

• How did the universe come into existence?
• Does God exist? And if so, what is He like?
• Why does man exist?
• What is our purpose for being here?
• Why is there evil and suffering in the world?
• What happens to us after we die?

These are the big controversial questions of life. These are the kinds of questions that people tend to disagree about (ask your neighbors!) and yet they are the very questions that the authors of the Bible tackle head on, chapter after chapter, book after book, and they do so absolutely consistently.

B. The Bible is a collection of 66 different documents.

It might be easy to have harmony in a book like the Qur’an. Why? It's a single book. Entirely different than the Bible! The Bible is made up of 39 Old Testament documents and 27 in the New.

C. The Bible was written by approximately 40 different authors.

Again, it might be easy to have internal harmony in the Quran. Why? It contains the teachings of one man: Muhammad, born about 570 years after Jesus. The Bible is absolutely different. It contains the teachings of approximately 40 different men!

D. Many of the Bible’s authors came from different educational and cultural backgrounds.

Peter was a fisherman. Paul was a scholar. Daniel was a prime minister. Asaph was a musician. Matthew was a tax collector. David was a shepherd, then a king. Luke was a historian and medical doctor.

E. The Bible was written over a period of approximately 1500+ years, covering some 60+ generations.

Many of the authors did not even know one another.

F. Many of the authors were separated by hundreds of miles geographically.

The Bible was written in a variety of places on three different continents: Africa, Asia and Europe. For example, Paul wrote four letters imprisoned in Rome. The apostle John, wrote while a prisoner banished to the Isle of Patmos in the Mediterranean Sea. The prophet Ezekiel wrote his work while held captive in Babylon.

G. The Bible was written in three different languages: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I think of pulling together 40 different people, from 60 different generations, who live on three different continents, who speak three different languages, and ask them to write 66 different documents regarding life's most controversial questions...I'm thinking we are going to have some serious problems. That book is a going to be a confusing and difficult read!

Yet, in spite of all of these factors, the Bible is a perfectly harmonious, consistent account of how God is seeking to reconcile sinners (like you and me) back to Himself through the person and work of His Son, Jesus Christ. This internal consistency is an amazing evidence that the authors of the Bible were being guided by the Holy Spirit when they wrote the different books of the Bible.

[Sip]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

3. THE BIBLE’S INTERNAL CONSISTENCY

The basic premise the bible puts forth is very consistent: The Bible is true because it is the word of God and we know about God because the Bible tells us so. I mean how could anything so circularly reinforcing be at all inconsistent? It simply cannot be ... by design.

[londontsi]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

The basic premise the bible puts forth is very consistent: The Bible is true because it is the word of God and we know about God because the Bible tells us so. I mean how could anything so circularly reinforcing be at all inconsistent? It simply cannot be ... by design.

If the Bible was consistent there would not be more than 400 “Christian “ Religions and sects all declaring their difference and superiority ( spiritually) from each others.

If the Bible was consistent they would loose their credibility and only one would survive.

However if you look at them closely you will find them all “credible” because they use the chapters and verse which suits and reinforces their view.


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[Cory]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

If the Bible was consistent there would not be more than 400 “Christian “ Religions and sects all declaring their difference and superiority ( spiritually) from each others.

If the Bible was consistent they would loose their credibility and only one would survive.

However if you look at them closely you will find them all “credible” because they use the chapters and verse which suits and reinforces their view.


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"Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
Mathew 13:24-30

Don't worry about all the Christian religions. When the time comes the wheat will be separated from the tares. You just focus on Jesus Christ and give your life to him.

[Siggie]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

You can't even get past creation before you encounter inconsistency. There are TWO DIFFERENT creation stories in the bible.

[Cory]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

It is always important to pay attention to details of any Scripture, especially the creation account in Genesis 1 and 2. These are not two contradictory accounts of creation. Genesis 1 covers the six days of creation. God pronounced it good at the completion of the sixth day. Genesis 2, from verse 4 onward, is a looking into the details of the events of Day 6, the origin of the human race. These accounts are not contradictory. Genesis (Hebrew Beresheeth-means in the beginning, titled by the first words) has a specific structure throughout its record, especially when it comes to the flood, the genealogies and the forming of nations, giving geography and the generations of families from Adam through the flood (the taldot- generations) are specific in detail.

Genesis 1 focuses on God calling the universe into existence ex nihilo, “out of nothing.” And the preceding days where he arranges the universe and the earth for habitation.

Genesis two gives us the details missing from Genesis 1. Romans 4:17: God, who…calls the things that are not, as though they were.” Hebrews 11:3 also states: “the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made of things which appear.”

God is presented as the Creator of both the material and the immaterial universe, of all things made. As John 1:2 tells us. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God . God is introduced as Elohim (used thirty-five times), the Hebrew word for “God,” He is the Creator that existed before all things. It is in Genesis 2 that God is called YHWH Elohim, identifying him as the self existent one creator of both the heavens (plural) and the earth. The earth becomes the center of His plan and the sun, moon and stars are created in reference to the earth.

Gen 1:2-4 As the Spirit of God was hovered over the face of the waters. Then the first words God spoke, "Let there be light"; and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.”

The sequence is proportioned throughout this first chapter. Each of the six days begins the same way: And God said as an introduction, (v. 3, 6, 9, 14, 20, 24). Then: Let there be. And the summation of the creating act there was or and it was so.

Things came into existence at the response of God's Word, as explained in Psalm 33:6-9....

***you can read the whole article here: http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp131.htm

[Sip]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

If the Bible was consistent there would not be more than 400 “Christian “ Religions and sects all declaring their difference and superiority ( spiritually) from each others.

There is an unfortunate side effect of the circular self-reinforcing consistency of the Bible: It is that those who choose to "believe" it are by definition idiots. And that's why you get the various interpretations that try to make sense of that which is utterly nonsense to begin with.

[Siggie]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

It is always important to pay attention to details of any Scripture, especially the creation account in Genesis 1 and 2. These are not two contradictory accounts of creation. Genesis 1 covers the six days of creation. God pronounced it good at the completion of the sixth day. Genesis 2, from verse 4 onward, is a looking into the details of the events of Day 6, the origin of the human race. These accounts are not contradictory. Genesis (Hebrew Beresheeth-means in the beginning, titled by the first words) has a specific structure throughout its record, especially when it comes to the flood, the genealogies and the forming of nations, giving geography and the generations of families from Adam through the flood (the taldot- generations) are specific in detail.

Genesis 1 focuses on God calling the universe into existence ex nihilo, “out of nothing.” And the preceding days where he arranges the universe and the earth for habitation.

Genesis two gives us the details missing from Genesis 1. Romans 4:17: God, who…calls the things that are not, as though they were.” Hebrews 11:3 also states: “the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that what is seen has not been made of things which appear.”

God is presented as the Creator of both the material and the immaterial universe, of all things made. As John 1:2 tells us. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God . God is introduced as Elohim (used thirty-five times), the Hebrew word for “God,” He is the Creator that existed before all things. It is in Genesis 2 that God is called YHWH Elohim, identifying him as the self existent one creator of both the heavens (plural) and the earth. The earth becomes the center of His plan and the sun, moon and stars are created in reference to the earth.

Gen 1:2-4 As the Spirit of God was hovered over the face of the waters. Then the first words God spoke, "Let there be light"; and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.”

The sequence is proportioned throughout this first chapter. Each of the six days begins the same way: And God said as an introduction, (v. 3, 6, 9, 14, 20, 24). Then: Let there be. And the summation of the creating act there was or and it was so.

Things came into existence at the response of God's Word, as explained in Psalm 33:6-9....

***you can read the whole article here: http://www.letusreason.org/Biblexp131.htm

No, I'm not reading that. Answer this question, are these not how the events are described? Which way did it happen?

Genesis 1 says animals before man and woman AND man and woman created together.

Genesis 1:25-27
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2 says man, then animals, then woman from man's rib.

Genesis 2:18-19
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Genesis 2:18-22
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

[Haykakan]

Re: Can We Trust the Bible?

I like stories about ribs. My rib stories all end with being covered in BBQ sauce. Perhaps we can discuss all this over a BBQ-ill cook. It is good to have some good laughs with dinner.