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  • #11
    Well, the idea that language doesn't matter to me is fallacious. You can try to be Armenian politically as surfer suggested, but language is the definitive mark of a given people, for it contains the mentality and consciousness of that people in the language. I don't consider language to be some sort of "social construct" for "economic" purposes as some economists or Marxian theorists like to surmise, but rather a distinct expression of a given people, that contains thought processes and mentalities in its words, for words are carriers of ideas abstract to the mind, that have been simplified in that word. And in those words are carried distinct feelings and outlooks that reflect those people.

    Think of it this way. Armenians exist because we have a certain language to identify them as, which makes them a unique people, like any other people who are both culture creating and culture bearing. If the Armenian language dies, then so do Armenians, for they are giving up what is in essence a language of a people unique to them and a reflection of them, an identity, and are changing, accepting another. If no one spoke Armenian, who would be left to call Armenian? Essentially the crux of the matter is the continued balkanization of peoples in societies such as the United States.

    To me at least, it is imperative that aside from all silly dilly dallying with politics and other organization efforts, since I see many of these Armenian youth group organizers or these kids that are supposedly going to "Armenian school" yet can't read or write proper Armenian, learn it or know it. It's like when I saw this Armenian girl at Hollywood during last years April 24th march, while she is organizing a political event, she can't read or write Armenian, but barely speaks it, since most of the time she chats in English.

    I'm not saying that one shouldn't learn English, since this is an inevitability in the merging of cultures, and old cultures die, blend in others. I am however saying that, one should at least have an idea of what language is, for without it, there is no point in calling Armenians, Armenian.
    Achkerov kute.

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    • #12
      Very good point, Mouse.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by SagGal Dan, u do know what i meant by that though, right? that some ppl look at the nationality of the FATHER instead of the MOTHER. it's not really with which parent they identify more with, just the idea that the FATHER is the dominant one in the family, makes some ppl think that only his nationality matters and his nationality becomes his children's nationality. completely disagree with that idea, but that's what i meant.
        Yeah, I do know what you mean. And I've seen it before.. I guess it's the patriarchal nature of our culture, eh? OK OK, admitting that I tend towards my English side more than my Armenian side (although I don't post on any English forums lol) But most of the people I socialise with are English rather than Armenian. I tend to have problems interacting with Armenians. I feel alienated... I don't know why...

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        • #14
          In case chille is paying any attention here, this is a perfect example of a person developing psychological issues (not that I'm saying you have issues, Dan, in that way) because he is expected to be a certain way based on his ethnic heritage. A person is a lot more than that, and can be whatever he damn well wants to be, and speak whatever language he damn well wants to, and associate with whatever people he damn well wants to.

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          • #15
            I agree with you, Mouse. My cousin's kids no longer attend an Armenian school (because their mom wants to be 'Canadian'), and ever since they stopped learning the language and talking it, it seems like they've been transformed into something else.. another race.. no longer part of our Armenian culture.. I don't know how to describe it.. but I think you're right about the importance/significance of language.

            A lot of Armenian parents in the States and Canada change their kids' school from Armenian to public, because they think that their kids are gonna end up not knowing English or something.. That's a load of BS. It's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard. Oh well, I guess some people are too 'odaramol'....

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            • #16
              Originally posted by Anonymouse Well, the idea that language doesn't matter to me is fallacious. You can try to be Armenian politically as surfer suggested, but language is the definitive mark of a given people, for it contains the mentality and consciousness of that people in the language. I don't consider language to be some sort of "social construct" for "economic" purposes as some economists or Marxian theorists like to surmise, but rather a distinct expression of a given people, that contains thought processes and mentalities in its words, for words are carriers of ideas abstract to the mind, that have been simplified in that word. And in those words are carried distinct feelings and outlooks that reflect those people.

              Think of it this way. Armenians exist because we have a certain language to identify them as, which makes them a unique people, like any other people who are both culture creating and culture bearing. If the Armenian language dies, then so do Armenians, for they are giving up what is in essence a language of a people unique to them and a reflection of them, an identity, and are changing, accepting another. If no one spoke Armenian, who would be left to call Armenian? Essentially the crux of the matter is the continued balkanization of peoples in societies such as the United States.

              To me at least, it is imperative that aside from all silly dilly dallying with politics and other organization efforts, since I see many of these Armenian youth group organizers or these kids that are supposedly going to "Armenian school" yet can't read or write proper Armenian, learn it or know it. It's like when I saw this Armenian girl at Hollywood during last years April 24th march, while she is organizing a political event, she can't read or write Armenian, but barely speaks it, since most of the time she chats in English.

              I'm not saying that one shouldn't learn English, since this is an inevitability in the merging of cultures, and old cultures die, blend in others. I am however saying that, one should at least have an idea of what language is, for without it, there is no point in calling Armenians, Armenian.
              Language is a small portion of ones culture. I still hold that speaking a language does not serve as identification for a culture. If language did serve as a means of identification, I would be spanish. However, I am not spanish. Holding a language does not make define someone.

              Armenian, to me, is of the essence. It is what you do. Many people in G dale are Armenian, however, you have associated most of those people with being associated with a thuggish culture.

              Armenians, throughout our history, have been a people of principle. That is why I am proud to be Armenian. We have died, and fought for our values through constant persecution. I am not proud because we have a certain language. Every different ethnicity can boast that. What makes us special is our history, and how we reacted to events.

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              • #17
                i'm new at this forum thing but i noticed the half-armenian thread and i was really interested in what u guys said....i have a question for all of you who have replied to this thread:
                I was born in Baku and i lived in armenia for about 3 yrs..and i really consider (and am very proud to call myself Armenian) but yet after moving to the states at a young age i have forgotten the language..but definetly not the culture..that will always be with me...so b/c i dont speak Armenian does that make me less of an Armenian?..i always felt that language shouldnt be an issue..but when i speak to other armenians and they find out that i dont speak the lang they automatically label me as "Americanized"....anyways i was just wondering what u guys thought

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                • #18
                  Half Armenian shmalf Armenian. I couldn't care less. I know many people who are half-armenian and who are prouder and more knowledgeable about Armenia than people who are "full" armenian.

                  My main problem is with people who just don't seem to care about Armenia or their armenian community, and who will just bring it up when they need something. I don't just remember my "armenianness", I LIVE it every second of every day.

                  Language for me IS a very big issue. It is one of the pillars of our culture, and it's very hard to deny it. And it IS something to be proud of, as we have an extremely beautiful language, that will die if we don't use it.

                  Also, one of my biggest pet peeves are people called Garo who will want to be called Gary, or Anto as Andy, or Sevan as Steve, yevayln. It's too "I'm one of you guys..no no, really, I am...please embrace me as an American/Canadian!"

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                  • #19
                    well, no, I'd still consider you pretty much Armenian. unless you act like some odaramol Americanised teenagers... you are Armenian as long as you are not ashamed of being Armenian, IMO. I understand some people's problem with the language and not having the chance to retain it or learn it. I myself, like I said, am not great at Armenian... but I don't feel any less of an Armenian.. and besides, it doesn't matter what others think. As long as you consider yourself Armenian (mostly about history and culture), then you can speak whatever language you want... it's your identity, not mine. and i'm in no position to judge you, and even if I am, it should have no bearing on your identity.

                    Welcome to the forum, btw.

                    Baron Dants, I agree with the name thing. Although when it comes to impossible-to-pronounce names, I find it OK to change it...

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                    • #20
                      With the language also comes armenian litterature, songs, etc, which is yet another huge pillar of our culture.

                      No offence to whoever it was that translated Baruyr Sevak's "Kich enk, payts hay enk", but it absolutely does NOT compare.

                      And I still see something wrong when Armenians are reading translations of armenian authors, or need a translation dictionary or a translator when in Armenia (armenian-english translations, arevela/arevmdahayeren translations, as I've previously said, are just a matter of time (a week or 2)).

                      Of course, different reasons have caused different people to not know Armenian, or not speak it very well. But anyone living in Canada (unless you're in Edmonton or Vancouver or Kujjuak up north) or the States or Europe has aaaall the possibilities to learn it, and it is only laziness, I think, which prevents them.

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