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Importance of Cultural Solidarity

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  • Importance of Cultural Solidarity

    Alright, I was going to post this in the other thread, which Emil the Great has now locked for the sake of the people. Long live Emil the Great!



    The issue of the armenian language is a sensitive one for us. It is just VERY recently that we have seen Armenians not speaking armenian. The fact that Armenians in the diaspora always went to armenian school, and always spoke the language was a sort of guarantee that we are still surviving. Now, the strong communities of Haleb, Beirut, Cairo, etc. are all losing people to the new communities in Montreal, Toronto, LA, Boston, etc, where in one or two generations, knowledge of the armenian language and culture has dropped dramatically. This is when we start fearing for our existence. And when people who don't speak armenian actually find it funny that some people waste their time on a "useless" language because they're living in the States, that is when people start to get angry. Therefore, you have to understand our situation when you judge the Armenian people's constant fear of disappearance. Sure the Italians don't panic. They have millions and millions living comfortably back in Italy, and the Italian people, I hope we agree, face no risk of elimination anytime soon. I will have to disagree about Italians all living in harmony. Their situation is worse. A half-italian friend of mine was being ignored by another Italian at school because she was from Sicily, and he, from Napoli. I have never seen such things between Armenians. Never has an Armenian from Syria ignored one from Armenia, or from Iran, or wherever else. Not to my knowledge anyways.

    As for Dan's white supremacist views, I obviously disagree with him. As Armenians, I think the first thing we have learned is to NEVER engage in such false beliefs where we believe that one race, or ethnicity is superior to another. Such idiotic thoughts have pretty much ALWAYS led to homicide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc.

    I will also disagree with you if you think that most Armenians are followers of such ways of thinking. I just recently read an article about an Azeri woman that lives in the capital of the now independant Nagorno Karabakh (say what you want people, it's independant ), and about how well she is treated, and how Armenians there never mistreat her. She even has a job in Artsakh's national radio station.

    Also, in Montreal, the Armenian General Benevolent Union has organized many events where survivors of the Cambodian, Rwandan and Jewish genocide all came to speak about their events.

    Back to the Italians now. My french canadian friends have always told me that Armenians in general are a lot more open to the Québécois culture, as opposed to the Italians and the Greeks, who usually go by the motto of "If you're in Canada, speak english or get out!" with regards to the local population. Also, my Serb, Croatian, Romanian, Syrian, Lebanese, Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan Jewish, Cambodian, Haitian, Greek, Italian, Polish, Russian friends have all been suprised when I spoke to them about their national issues, and about how aware I was of it all.

    All this to say that we Armenians are NOT a group who are constantly closed to others. Yes, we ARE protective of our culture, and justifiably so. But we have learned throughout our history that fanatacism, or false ideas of supremacy, lead only to danger, and that is what we try to avoid.

  • #2
    Hey Baron Dants, just to clarify a few things,

    I do know Armenian.
    I do not advocate or wish physical harm towards anyone.
    I respect people's views, but I also have my own views.
    I don't think White supremacy is a "false belief" per se.

    Just thought I'd clarify.

    peace

    Comment


    • #3
      yeah, as a recent migrate to the US, I've been noticing this language thing a lot. Somehow eventually Armenians are forced to speak English much more than Armenian, u know (school, job, just socializing with ppl) but I think most of it is the difference in the WEstern and Eastern Armenian Languages. Since there is a pretty big difference, I mean It took me a while to understand the arevelahayeren, so thats why the easy way out if just to speak in English with eachother. I personally some day notice that I've spoken much more English than Armenian, which is pretty sad, cuz right when I moved here, I was kinda making fun of Armenians who do that....but it's just the nature of where we are now. and plus Armenians here in the US think its really cool to know and to speak English, but let's say back in Syria, it was pretty ghetto to speak the Arabic language, so we never did, thats why our priority was Armenian....

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dan Hey Baron Dants, just to clarify a few things,

        I do know Armenian.
        I do not advocate or wish physical harm towards anyone.
        I respect people's views, but I also have my own views.
        I don't think White supremacy is a "false belief" per se.

        Just thought I'd clarify.

        peace
        My reference to the Armenian language wasn't about you. You always have armenian words here and there in your messages.

        And while you don't advocate physical harm, I have come to believe that false feelings of supremacy (you can say they're justified feelings, I'll never agree) always lead to fanaticism and then violence. History has proven that so far.

        Glad to see you've started talking more politely all of a sudden.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: In reply to loseyourname...

          Originally posted by Baron Dants Alright, I was going to post this in the other thread, which Emil the Great has now locked for the sake of the people. Long live Emil the Great!



          The issue of the armenian language is a sensitive one for us. It is just VERY recently that we have seen Armenians not speaking armenian. The fact that Armenians in the diaspora always went to armenian school, and always spoke the language was a sort of guarantee that we are still surviving. Now, the strong communities of Haleb, Beirut, Cairo, etc. are all losing people to the new communities in Montreal, Toronto, LA, Boston, etc, where in one or two generations, knowledge of the armenian language and culture has dropped dramatically. This is when we start fearing for our existence. And when people who don't speak armenian actually find it funny that some people waste their time on a "useless" language because they're living in the States, that is when people start to get angry. Therefore, you have to understand our situation when you judge the Armenian people's constant fear of disappearance. Sure the Italians don't panic. They have millions and millions living comfortably back in Italy, and the Italian people, I hope we agree, face no risk of elimination anytime soon. I will have to disagree about Italians all living in harmony. Their situation is worse. A half-italian friend of mine was being ignored by another Italian at school because she was from Sicily, and he, from Napoli. I have never seen such things between Armenians. Never has an Armenian from Syria ignored one from Armenia, or from Iran, or wherever else. Not to my knowledge anyways.

          As for Dan's white supremacist views, I obviously disagree with him. As Armenians, I think the first thing we have learned is to NEVER engage in such false beliefs where we believe that one race, or ethnicity is superior to another. Such idiotic thoughts have pretty much ALWAYS led to homicide, mass murder, ethnic cleansing, genocide, etc.

          I will also disagree with you if you think that most Armenians are followers of such ways of thinking. I just recently read an article about an Azeri woman that lives in the capital of the now independant Nagorno Karabakh (say what you want people, it's independant ), and about how well she is treated, and how Armenians there never mistreat her. She even has a job in Artsakh's national radio station.

          Also, in Montreal, the Armenian General Benevolent Union has organized many events where survivors of the Cambodian, Rwandan and Jewish genocide all came to speak about their events.

          Back to the Italians now. My french canadian friends have always told me that Armenians in general are a lot more open to the Québécois culture, as opposed to the Italians and the Greeks, who usually go by the motto of "If you're in Canada, speak english or get out!" with regards to the local population. Also, my Serb, Croatian, Romanian, Syrian, Lebanese, Tunisian, Algerian, Moroccan Jewish, Cambodian, Haitian, Greek, Italian, Polish, Russian friends have all been suprised when I spoke to them about their national issues, and about how aware I was of it all.

          All this to say that we Armenians are NOT a group who are constantly closed to others. Yes, we ARE protective of our culture, and justifiably so. But we have learned throughout our history that fanatacism, or false ideas of supremacy, lead only to danger, and that is what we try to avoid.
          Brilliantly said! Loser makes claims sometimes that he just has no idea of what he's talking about.
          Achkerov kute.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: In reply to loseyourname...

            Originally posted by Baron Dants The issue of the armenian language is a sensitive one for us. It is just VERY recently that we have seen Armenians not speaking armenian. The fact that Armenians in the diaspora always went to armenian school, and always spoke the language was a sort of guarantee that we are still surviving. Now, the strong communities of Haleb, Beirut, Cairo, etc. are all losing people to the new communities in Montreal, Toronto, LA, Boston, etc, where in one or two generations, knowledge of the armenian language and culture has dropped dramatically. This is when we start fearing for our existence.
            This is a product of group mentality. Neither your individual existence, nor the individual existence of anyone related to you, nor anyone you care about for that matter, is threatened by any linguistic concern. You would continue to exist if you were mute.

            And when people who don't speak armenian actually find it funny that some people waste their time on a "useless" language because they're living in the States, that is when people start to get angry.
            When one forumer tells another that he/she is not Armenian because he/she does not speak the language, then I get angry.

            Therefore, you have to understand our situation when you judge the Armenian people's constant fear of disappearance.
            Do you honestly think that a Native American can't sympathize with that feeling? Not only do I not speak the Cherokee language, but I have never met a single person who did. I live in a country that committed open genocide on my people and even now relegates anyone who will not assimilate to a joke of a "reservation" that may as well be an unsupervised prison.

            I will also disagree with you if you think that most Armenians are followers of such ways of thinking.
            I don't. I was just very disappointed by all of the hatred coming out in that thread. The individual is responsible for whatever hatred exists in him; I will never blame it on a particular group.

            All this to say that we Armenians are NOT a group who are constantly closed to others. Yes, we ARE protective of our culture, and justifiably so. But we have learned throughout our history that fanatacism, or false ideas of supremacy, lead only to danger, and that is what we try to avoid.
            Being proud is one thing. Being hateful and close-minded is another. I'm not going to indict all Armenians. To do so would be idiotic and in blatant conflict with the history of the Armenian people and my own stated principles. There are, however, certain forumers here that spread ignorant rhetoric and uninformed nationalism. Then there are those, like you, who are extremely well-informed and thoughtful, who never cease to amaze me with their maturity and level-headedness.

            It was not my intention to say anything negative about Armenians in general. It was my intention to say something negative about several of the forumers. They are who I was addressing with the words "you people." They are their own people and they are responsible for their hateful ignorance. Armenia is not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Baron i totally agree with you. Every year that passes by I notice it more and more. Hopefully something happens for it to get fixed, but alas I have no clue what that might be.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Re: In reply to loseyourname...

                Originally posted by loseyourname This is a product of group mentality. Neither your individual existence, nor the individual existence of anyone related to you, nor anyone you care about for that matter, is threatened by any linguistic concern. You would continue to exist if you were mute.

                Do you honestly think that a Native American can't sympathize with that feeling? Not only do I not speak the Cherokee language, but I have never met a single person who did. I live in a country that committed open genocide on my people and even now relegates anyone who will not assimilate to a joke of a "reservation" that may as well be an unsupervised prison.

                It is not for my individual existence that I fear. It is the existence of my culture. Yes, we can pride ourselves for having Komitas-s, Gorky-s, Tumanian-s, Khachaturian-s, yevayln...but I don't want the armenian culture to limit itself to what it has had. I want to see NEW authors writing in armenian, NEW internationally renowned armenian artists and composers.

                It is particularly BECAUSE you are a Native American that I assumed that you would understand our situation. Didn't the missionary schools deprive your ancestors of speaking their own language? Why did they do so? It facilitated their assimilation...Which is probably the reason why you have never had the opportunity to learn Cherokee..and why Native American art and culture is not developping any more than it alrady has. Same situation applies here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  baron you make a very good point and i agree with you completely. but i have to say that we dont have to worry about it so much because after these Armenian immigrants get over the culture shock and stop trying to be American or whatever and speak English all the time, and the situation in Armenia improves people will start realizing their roots. i believe the diffrence between what happened to the Native Americans and what is happening to us is that for 1. back then there was an active program by other forces such as the spaniards of americans to assimilate them, 2. they did not have their own government and base to which people could go to. we are lucky enough to have our own nation and i believe it is the existence of Armenia that ensures the survival of future generations and as soon as everything stablizes it will get back to normal dont worry about it guys.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TigranJamharian baron you make a very good point and i agree with you completely. but i have to say that we dont have to worry about it so much because after these Armenian immigrants get over the culture shock and stop trying to be American or whatever and speak English all the time, and the situation in Armenia improves people will start realizing their roots. i believe the diffrence between what happened to the Native Americans and what is happening to us is that for 1. back then there was an active program by other forces such as the spaniards of americans to assimilate them, 2. they did not have their own government and base to which people could go to. we are lucky enough to have our own nation and i believe it is the existence of Armenia that ensures the survival of future generations and as soon as everything stablizes it will get back to normal dont worry about it guys.
                    Tigran jan, I'd love to believe in your optimism, but reality speaks for itself. Not too many Armenians feel as impassioned about going back as we do. People are selfish, and it would take a lot to get them out of their comfortable little shells. True, we do have a country, but for how long? If Armenians don't start living there, then someone else will gladly take their place. What I'm saying is, don't lose hope, but at the same time, look at the situation more realistically.

                    Comment

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