Importance of Cultural Solidarity

[loseyourname]

Re: Re: Re: In reply to loseyourname...

Originally posted by Baron Dants It is particularly BECAUSE you are a Native American that I assumed that you would understand our situation. Didn't the missionary schools deprive your ancestors of speaking their own language? Why did they do so? It facilitated their assimilation...Which is probably the reason why you have never had the opportunity to learn Cherokee..and why Native American art and culture is not developping any more than it alrady has. Same situation applies here.

You're right. It pisses me off to know that many of my ancestors, and all mestizo people today, are Spanish speakers. It's an insult to the native people that we were forced to adopt the habits, religion, and language of the people who came in, raped our women, killed our warriors, and corrupted our children. I even have a Spanish surname and I'm ashamed to know that I'm at least partially descended from Conquistadores. I don't mean to be of any offense to the people on the forum living in the Americas, but it may be the ultimate insult that immigrants from around the world are welcomed with open arms, can come here and make a living when they have been displaced from their home lands, while my own people, who have claims to this land going back 20,000 years, are given nothing.

[xBaron Dants]

Re: Re: Re: Re: In reply to loseyourname...

Originally posted by loseyourname You're right. It pisses me off to know that many of my ancestors, and all mestizo people today, are Spanish speakers. It's an insult to the native people that we were forced to adopt the habits, religion, and language of the people who came in, raped our women, killed our warriors, and corrupted our children. I even have a Spanish surname and I'm ashamed to know that I'm at least partially descended from Conquistadores. I don't mean to be of any offense to the people on the forum living in the Americas, but it may be the ultimate insult that immigrants from around the world are welcomed with open arms, can come here and make a living when they have been displaced from their home lands, while my own people, who have claims to this land going back 20,000 years, are given nothing.

You see? This is how stuff like "hybridization" were caused. It will always be the stronger, more brutal forces (in this case, the Spaniards), taking over and assimilating a more peaceful, and in my opinion, more noble civilization (in this case, the Native Americans). Native American culture could have flourished and could still be flourishing now if your ancestors had been allowed to keep their language, habits, religion, rituals, etc. And God knows the Western world today could have learned many many things from that culture (such as the respect for nature). This is why I am against the hybridization of the whole world because in the end, it will obviously be the more opressive culture that will take over, and other cultures, with their values and riches, will fade away...


The resemblances between the Native Americans and the Armenians are striking. At least the Armenians, despite all the tragedy of our history, have had the luck of having at least a piece of their land known as Armenia. I wish the Native Americans had had such "luck" too.

It personally pisses me off when at major American events (like the Salt Lake Olympics), they bring a Native American tribal chief, as if to show that they play an instrumental part in the country. Puer publicity....

[loseyourname]

There is a huge difference between one culture coming in and conquering another, and two people from different cultures falling in love and deciding they want to procreate. It is not as utilitarian as you make it out to be.

[loseyourname]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In reply to loseyourname...

Originally posted by Baron Dants It personally pisses me off when at major American events (like the Salt Lake Olympics), they bring a Native American tribal chief, as if to show that they play an instrumental part in the country. Puer publicity....

It pisses me off when a US state gets itself into debt and Arnold Governator decided to come in and use bully tactics to extract tribute from sovereign nations that exist within. It pisses me off George Bush says quite openly that he would annex further Native territory if oil was found on it. It pisses me off that the US census bureau labels Hispanics as "Caucasian" because they were raped by Spaniards five hundred years ago. I could go on.

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by loseyourname There is a huge difference between one culture coming in and conquering another, and two people from different cultures falling in love and deciding they want to procreate. It is not as utilitarian as you make it out to be.

Alright, that is true, and I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

But in most cases, the outcome, in the long run, would still be the same. For example, if a Native American marries a non-native American, chances are that the kids will grow up not knowing much about the Native American culture, and will identify more with the non-Native one.

Or if a Greek woman and an Armenian man marry in the States, chances are the kids will be raised to only speak english, as neither the mother will speak Armenian, nor the father will speak Greek. You CAN argue that that is a positive, but I just see that as the slow dissolution of two rich cultures.

And keep in mind that things ARE different when you compare Armenians and Italians, for example, as most of Armenia's population IS in the diaspora, and they must play a big role in keeping our culture alive. Otherwise, nothing will prevent Armenia from disappearing, and Turkey taking over the remaining 10% of our lands...

[xBaron Dants]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In reply to loseyourname...

Originally posted by loseyourname It pisses me off when a US state gets itself into debt and Arnold Governator decided to come in and use bully tactics to extract tribute from sovereign nations that exist within. It pisses me off George Bush says quite openly that he would annex further Native territory if oil was found on it. It pisses me off that the US census bureau labels Hispanics as "Caucasian" because they were raped by Spaniards five hundred years ago. I could go on.

How much territory are the Natives "given"? (sounds so pathetic that they have been "granted" territory by the generous Americans").

How is the administration? Any Native American congressmen?

[loseyourname]

Honestly, Baron, given the struggle that you're in, I think you should attempt to marry within your own culture. It should be a goal to shoot for, but at the same time, it should not be an ultimatum, and it should particularly not be an ultimatum for cultures that are not threatened with extinction. Don't forget that Armenians themselves are an amalgamation of many ethnic influences, as testified by the fact that you all look so different. New and wonderful cultures can arise from the joining of previous ones, and it need not be at the expense of parent cultures.

Another thing. If you are in a struggle for land, why do you keep leaving? What good are you doing your land by not being on it?

[loseyourname]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In reply to loseyourname...

Originally posted by Baron Dants How much territory are the Natives "given"? (sounds so pathetic that they have been "granted" territory by the generous Americans").

Desert outposts. That is all. You want an example of genocide? Read up on the trail of tears. The Cherokee nation did everything asked of it to appease the US government. It adopted so called "civilized" life and democratic government, but as soon as gold was discovered in Georgia and North Carolina, they were forcibly displaced to Oklahoma and Texas on foot with virtually no provisions. Most starved to death on the way there.

How is the administration? Any Native American congressmen?

Very few, and none are prominent.

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by loseyourname Honestly, Baron, given the struggle that you're in, I think you should attempt to marry within your own culture. It should be a goal to shoot for, but at the same time, it should not be an ultimatum, and it should particularly not be an ultimatum for cultures that are not threatened with extinction. Don't forget that Armenians themselves are an amalgamation of many ethnic influences, as testified by the fact that you all look so different. New and wonderful cultures can arise from the joining of previous ones, and it need not be at the expense of parent cultures.

Another thing. If you are in a struggle for land, why do you keep leaving? What good are you doing your land by not being on it?

Wow, I am glad to see that you have finally understood my point of view. Good to see people who actually DO listen to what other people say.

You know, as different as we look, I (and most other Armenians) can always tell when someone is Armenian.

As for the land, I agree with you entirely...I am born in Syria because my grandparents were driven out of Western Armenia, and I have arrived in Canada because it gives me so many opportunities, as opposed to Syria. One of those opportunities being to return to Armenia, which I will definitely do some time after I complete my education, and my family will finally return on their own lands.

That's it for tonight. I shall scurry off to bed now.
Always a pleasure.
(my, what a courteous flamers forum).

[xBaron Dants]

Originally posted by loseyourname Honestly, Baron, given the struggle that you're in, I think you should attempt to marry within your own culture. It should be a goal to shoot for, but at the same time, it should not be an ultimatum, and it should particularly not be an ultimatum for cultures that are not threatened with extinction. Don't forget that Armenians themselves are an amalgamation of many ethnic influences, as testified by the fact that you all look so different. New and wonderful cultures can arise from the joining of previous ones, and it need not be at the expense of parent cultures.

Another thing. If you are in a struggle for land, why do you keep leaving? What good are you doing your land by not being on it?

As I said, the similarities between the fate of Armenians and that of the Native Americans, despite all their differences, are striking. Both have become second class citizens on their own land. Not even second class....10th class...