Fate

[Darorinag]

I think we're talking about fate in the sense that you're fated to do this or that and that the outcome was fated to be either good or bad... How can there be fate and still different possibilities? It's a contradiction...

I can see how this will end up with the loop I was talking about. You're fated to make a choice... ahhhh... lol

[Anonymouse]

I already explained my position. If you are too obtuse to comprehend it, it's not my fault.

[Darorinag]

What you were talking about is "outcome" not "fate." Taking different roads will have different outcomes, and not necessarily fate... I think, from what I understood anyway, that we're talking about a person being FATED to take a specific road...

[Anonymouse]

What is fate but outcome?

[Darorinag]

Fate is about whether or not you have the choice... Or at least I thought so... In other words, you were "fated" to be led to that outcome... I don't know. I guess it could be understood both ways...

[Anonymouse]

Fate is that which will inevitably happen in the future. Your assertion would mean humans are completely robotic and not able to make choices.

Even hardcore fatalists admit to making choices but these choices are directed or led by God or someone toward whatever destiny, in which case it wouldn't be much of them making their own choice, someone else, yet a choice nonetheless. You cannot deny the axiom than man acts.

With that said, do you have anything to say about what I said?

[Darorinag]

Your assertion would mean humans are completely robotic and not able to make choices.

That is what many fatalists say.

Even hardcore fatalists admit to making choices but these choices are directed or led by God or someone toward whatever destiny, in which case it wouldn't be much of them making their own choice, someone else, yet a choice nonetheless. You cannot deny the axiom than man acts.

Fatalists claim that we are fated to make choices. In other words, if I change my mind in order to avoid fate, I was fated to do that as well. This goes back to what I said in my first post in this thread, the loop I was talking about. If someone else has already decided for us, then it would mean that we have no free will, and that we are fated to act a certain way...

With that said, do you have anything to say about what I said?

I AM saying something about what you said.. Duh...

[Anonymouse]

You just contradicted yourself. First in my statement about fatalists claiming to not make choices, you said "That is what many fatalists say" then you say "Fatalists claim that we are fated to make choices...". Is it choice or not? It matters not if God determined or if it was out of their own volution, it is the same axiom, that man acts, and to act is to choose. You are not commenting on what I said for if you were, you wouldn't make statements such as "someone has decided for us". Every outcome is already decided in our world, based on mathematics and causality, or God or whichever you want to rely on, even though we may not know it.

[Darorinag]

You just contradicted yourself. First in my statement about fatalists claiming to not make choices, you said "That is what many fatalists say" then you say "Fatalists claim that we are fated to make choices...".

Being fated to make a choice is not a choice in the first place..... So no, I wasn't contradicting myself. I clarified it further by saying: "If someone else has already decided for us, then it would mean that we have no free will, and that we are fated to act a certain way..."

And you said:

Your assertion would mean humans are completely robotic and not able to make choices.

With which I agreed, because being fated to make a certain choice does not render us in any way creatures of free will.

[Anonymouse]

You apparently do not understand this either intentionally or unintentionally. Whether it is God or free will, we make choices. In order to disprove that axiom you must somehow show that man does not act and is an inert creature waiting for something to happen, which is not the case.

And for the nth time, man chooses, ignoring whether it is free will or God. He selects. He acts. That is all. Plain and simple. That is praxaeology, the study of human action. It does not concern itself with the source or the result only the action. And now you try to wiggle your way out of a contradiction by more "" references.

Let's make this simpler for you.

fate
-noun: your overall circumstances or condition in life (including everything that happens to you)

Assuming this is true, there is no way to fulfill fate and ascend towards it if man did not choose or act. Whether it is God or free will we all have to act towards a desired end. Both can co-exist, as I pointed out, since mathematics is the language of the universe and all of it is based on mathematics, a medium predetermined. The outcomes for each choice are already there, just like the sum of any mathematic algorithm are already there, assuming there is God and assuming math is God's language and he used it to construct the universe and everything in it, blah blah blah, so everything is known and determined. You have not yet commented on my initial post.