Bird Flu

[Anahita]

I first spoke about bird flu on several forums about three years ago.

I pointed out then that this is like many non-human to human diseases. Confine many animals in domestication and have people around them… more intensive confinement is more rapid spread. In time, any animal disease will find a way to people under those conditions. Show me one example of someone getting CWD from deer. None. Show me an example of mad-cow to human. Many. There are thousands of examples of this in history (Jared Diamond talks about some of this in _Guns, Germs, and Steel_)

NOW, (I just heard on the news a bit ago …how insane!) the strategy to ‘prevent’ bird flu in the US is to MORE confine the captive birds. The industry is keeping, already ridiculously confined animals, confined even more. This is like the same kind of logic as we must 'wage war to prevent war." It is a terrible idea. Terrible. Will free range birds transmit bird flu? I doubt it. Would a good strategy be to move animal ag towards free range? Yes. Will confined birds spread disease quickly and to humans, as well. Yes. 1918 epidemic... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/

What are your thoughts?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Bird Flu

I first spoke about bird flu on several forums about three years ago.

I pointed out then that this is like many non-human to human diseases. Confine many animals in domestication and have people around them… more intensive confinement is more rapid spread. In time, any animal disease will find a way to people under those conditions. Show me one example of someone getting CWD from deer. None. Show me an example of mad-cow to human. Many. There are thousands of examples of this in history (Jared Diamond talks about some of this in _Guns, Germs, and Steel_)

NOW, (I just heard on the news a bit ago …how insane!) the strategy to ‘prevent’ bird flu in the US is to MORE confine the captive birds. The industry is keeping, already ridiculously confined animals, confined even more. This is like the same kind of logic as we must 'wage war to prevent war." It is a terrible idea. Terrible. Will free range birds transmit bird flu? I doubt it. Would a good strategy be to move animal ag towards free range? Yes. Will confined birds spread disease quickly and to humans, as well. Yes. 1918 epidemic... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/

What are your thoughts?

Anahita, Spanish Flu, that killed millions in 1918, is now thought to be a varient of bird flu. There was no intensive factory farming back in 1918. Bird flu exists because it is exists in the wild bird population. If that population has no contact with domestic stock then there can be no cross-infection. It doesn't necessarily mean confining birds more, just designing their habitat better so that it minimises possibility of contact with wild birds.

[karoaper]

Re: Bird Flu

Anahita, Spanish Flu, that killed millions in 1918, is now thought to be a varient of bird flu. There was no intensive factory farming back in 1918. Bird flu exists because it is exists in the wild bird population. If that population has no contact with domestic stock then there can be no cross-infection. It doesn't necessarily mean confining birds more, just designing their habitat better so that it minimises possibility of contact with wild birds.

I don't know about the Spanish Flu, but an epidemic spread by the Spanish fly would not necessarily be a bad thing.

[Anahita]

Re: Bird Flu

Anahita, Spanish Flu, that killed millions in 1918, is now thought to be a varient of bird flu. There was no intensive factory farming back in 1918. Bird flu exists because it is exists in the wild bird population. If that population has no contact with domestic stock then there can be no cross-infection. It doesn't necessarily mean confining birds more, just designing their habitat better so that it minimises possibility of contact with wild birds.

Do wild deer carry CWD? Maybe. Are wild animals the route of transmission to human beings? My primary point is about the RATE of transmission. That IS very important because the difference between a year from now (pandemic), versus five years from now (when vaccines and medications are readily avail. to all) makes a BIG difference.

Could you explain the 'designing their habitat better..." Whose habitat? Who designs? What is better? I'm not sure what you mean.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Bird Flu

Could you explain the 'designing their habitat better..." Whose habitat? Who designs? What is better? I'm not sure what you mean.

I mean it should be possible to engineer an enclosed habitat that will still allows "free-range" livestock to retain that clasification and that freedom of movement.

Though, do you think your confined and controlled habitat is in any real way "natural", that you would be classed as "free-range human"? If you are like most humans living on this planet, then I doubt it.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Bird Flu

I first spoke about bird flu on several forums about three years ago.

I pointed out then that this is like many non-human to human diseases. Confine many animals in domestication and have people around them… more intensive confinement is more rapid spread. In time, any animal disease will find a way to people under those conditions. Show me one example of someone getting CWD from deer. None. Show me an example of mad-cow to human. Many. There are thousands of examples of this in history (Jared Diamond talks about some of this in _Guns, Germs, and Steel_)

NOW, (I just heard on the news a bit ago …how insane!) the strategy to ‘prevent’ bird flu in the US is to MORE confine the captive birds. The industry is keeping, already ridiculously confined animals, confined even more. This is like the same kind of logic as we must 'wage war to prevent war." It is a terrible idea. Terrible. Will free range birds transmit bird flu? I doubt it. Would a good strategy be to move animal ag towards free range? Yes. Will confined birds spread disease quickly and to humans, as well. Yes. 1918 epidemic... http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/influenza/

What are your thoughts?

Jared Diamond is a discredited opportunist that took extreme leaps of faith in his overrated "Guns, Germs, and Steel". I wouldn't trust what he says.

Besides, this bird flu hysteria is way overdone, and is but another one of the worthless things the "news" constantly pumps into the minds of the masses - fear. Moreover, it's just another avenue the government wants to create fear and promote itself as the savior.

It's just another way for people to say "Oh thank God for the Government, they will know what to do, let's all trust them".

For all I know, this could be a creation by a government or government(s), who knows? Since governments have engaged in this sort of thing in the past, I wouldn't hold it far.

Remember that whole SARS bollocks (how do you like me now Steve?)?