Political Systems and Nation States

[gorsenvadz]

as u wish...to the luv thread it is

[Anonymouse]

Thank you my dear. ops:

[omniscient]

ok not only has this thread gone off topic as usual, but as i said earlier it should be in the politics section.

politics + crime + bullxxxx = same thing

[omniscient]

oh god, do you people not understand, take this to the politics forum (starting to get a little mad.....not good)

[jahannam]

oh god, do you people not understand, take this to the politics forum (starting to get a little mad.....not good)

uffff shut up!!
the political thread is called ARMENIAN politics
get it?
this thread is covering governmental systems in general, specially in the US of A...
understand? or do you wanna offer us again so that I could tell you again...
*working as we speak to find the part of the brain that makes people slow*

[gorsenvadz]

lol can we say pent up anger :shock:

[surferarmo]

This isn't about being alone. Patlajan has misunderstood what I have said and has yet to address the contradictions of the state and the criticisms I've offered. The misunderstanding about the individual vs the state and of lack of centralization, in essence, what anarchism is mainly about, hasn't gone ignored. I have yet to see him address anything new aside from the same old "anarchy is chaos" argument which holds no merit. Trivial examples such as cigarettes have nothing to do with what is the topic at hand. Cigarette production and in fact organization isn't absent from anarchism, but it is free of the industrial centralization that exists in the form of corporate globalization. The belief that stripping away the present system would take us back to stone age shows exactly the average persons misunderstanding with anarchism. In essence, such people have been conditioned to think that without a big daddy in the form of a government, no organization can exist.

As far as causes go, why is "our cause" better than theirs? These are people who are fighting for their ability for self determination and not have the U.S. meddle in their affairs. The U.S. history in the middle East is a brutal one and a closer look into it will tell you why they hate America. The continued U.S. support of the terrorist state of Israel with American taxpayer money is another major reason. The U.S. created these terrorists so now they keep the masses in fear to rally behind their cause, no differently than the U.S. does. The terrorists don't hate us because of cultural envy, yet many are conditioned to think so. So some dozen and a half "terrorists" carefully plotted and carried out the destruction of the WTC knowing full well that they were going to be killed in the process for no other reason than resentment of the fact that we have MTV and Calvin Klein jeans and women who can go out into public without being covered by a tent. I'm sorry but that's horse pucky.

Then you gon on attempting to seperate a nation and an individual by trying to justify violence. If individuals cause violence it is bad, but nations are justifed. But nations are the collective force of individuals. So what you're saying is violence when done by nation states is okay, but otherwise individuals aren't allowed to since the nation is greater than the individual, nevermind that all contributions to mankind and creativity flow from individuals, not nations.

To the extent you identify yourself with the state, you are distressed confronting the destructive nature of how all governments including the one under which you live behave. You project any negative qualities onto others, against whom you then take a morally righteous stance and insist upon punishing them for our inadequacies of character. If the United States has created chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, we will go to war with Iraq for allegedly trying to acquire such weapons for themselves. America will condemn North Korea for having nuclear missiles, even though the US is the only country in history that has actually used such weapons against civilian populations.

Your allusion that terrorists are ruining your "freedom" is a misnomer, since freedom in the absolute sense is just a word/idea. However, why are terrorists getting in the way of your liberty ( a more precise term )? That is because of the actions of America has a nation. Every since the Enlightenment, nations have been growing and getting bigger, and society is moving closer and closer to centralization and globalization, and power is amassing in the hands of fewer and fewer people, and the death toll is rising even more. There must be a reason why terrorists hate this country. As I've said, a country requires an allegience and an allegiance requires a cause, and so in order for this nation to exist they must create causes ( Red menace, Cold War, Terrorism ), in order to justify their existence and make you believe that your "freedom is threatened". What is our cause anyway? This neverending "cause" that all nation states supposedly speak of has been in action since the Enlightenment and all it has done is stifle individualism and creativity, centralized power and wealth in the hands of fewer people, and causes more bloodshed than anything else.

The apparatus of the state has neither the capability nor the inclination to protect any of your interests. To the contrary, you are expected to provide the means including your very lives in order to protect the state, hence why the people fight the wars for the state, not the other way around, so how is the state protecting your interests? This is why wars have always increased the powers of political systems as they diminish individual liberties. The state is as dependent upon wars as orthodontists are on overbites, or lawyers are on disputes.

Every war is conducted by the state against its own citizenry. If you doubt this, ask yourself these questions, whose liberties have been more greatly curtailed since Sept. 11th, bin Laden’s or yours ( The Patriot Act )? Whose belongings are being searched at airports and other public buildings, whose telephone, computer, credit card, medical, bank, and employment records are being monitored, Al Qaida operatives or yours? Whose taxes will be increased and whose children will be called upon to die in this eternal war, leaders of the Islamic Jihad or yours?

Come on folks, put things into perspective. If you have not already figured out the essential nature of the state, it s time for you to reasses things. Every political system is a racket, run by and for the benefit of the most disreputable people in any society, and employing those methods that, to any decent folk represent the lowest qualities in human behavior. Lying, threatening, coercing, killing, corrupting, deceiving, are such common characteristics in political life that we scarcely comment upon it anymore. Yet if your child grew up exhibiting such traits, you would rightfully regard yourself as a parental failure.

Well whenever people interact, politics is present, therefore being alone is the absence of politics. When people are together, politics comes into existence and is organized in the nation state. My liberties are somewhat infringed on for my security. It is a necessary sacrifice when involved in a polity. I chose to become a citizen. I like the securities that the state has to offer.

[jahannam]

lol can we say pent up anger :shock:

not angry... just sick of it.. he said it 3 times!

[gorsenvadz]

lol maybe he wasnt sure if u heard him the first 2 times lol

[surferarmo]

oh god, do you people not understand, take this to the politics forum (starting to get a little mad.....not good)

uffff shut up!!
the political thread is called ARMENIAN politics
get it?
this thread is covering governmental systems in general, specially in the US of A...
understand? or do you wanna offer us again so that I could tell you again...
*working as we speak to find the part of the brain that makes people slow*

This doesnt even concern a specific nation, especially the USA. We just use the USA as an example, but Jahannam is right guys. This discussion concerns general political philosophy about the origin, function, and sustainment of the nation.