Armenians from turkey

[dani87]

Re: Armenians from turkey

ok, well there's not so many Armenians there anymore, i think.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenians from turkey

@dani,I am not a pure armenian,i am a 1/8 armenian.But i think it is not about your blood.The tradegy of my family affects me much i just only want to talk about those things.

Hmm...a 1/8th Armenian claiming it is not about "blood", so assuming it is not about blood, then what is it about? Culture, language, and social construction? what culture have you partaken in that can be considered Armenian? Very questionable, but I will say this, why did your family remain in Turkey? What is your story and why do you care if Turks are "open minded" or not? Any Armenain that is in Turkey should relocate as soon as possible. I don't consider many there Armenian nor do I consider the decendents of Armenians that watched their fellow Armenian die in the desert from the comforts of the local Mosque Armenian.

As Monte's experience was summerized, he went to Marsavan, to his old village, only to find the very same women that had betrayed his family (Her father had betrayed the entire village to Turkish authorities in order to save his own skin) living in a state of nillism. From the description, the home was vacated of any religious or cultural connection to Armenians, but at the same time, the lack of a authentic "muslim abode" was also not evident. They were just living as ghosts, as "Christian Turks", in a state that had ignored the very concept of such a existence. So, are like this women, did your family betray the many thousand Armenians? And now you want to be "Armenian"? Huh...I don't know whats worse your innocent nature or the gullible nature of Armenians in reaching out the very same gene pool that betrayed them to their butchers.

[dani87]

Re: Armenians from turkey

Virgil you're not making any sense at all! he's saying that he's 1/8th Armenian, and this has made him interested in that part of his heritage. And here he seeks the friendship of open minded people (preferably Armenians) so that he can speak about the Armenian genocide and the Armenian culture because that's something he can't do where he live.

And for gods sake what do you know about how and why some Armenians remained in Turkey after the genocide? It's not like all of them are traitors! I know some Armenians who live in Turkey and they are proud Armenians. It's not like if the Armenians in the diaspora are better Armenians. And why should they relocate from places that there ancestors lived on? in that case we, the diaspora Armenians should relocate to western Armenia.

And for that traitor in marsavan (isn't it Merzivan), may his soul not rest in peace.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenians from turkey

Dani, I am going to cut this short, the individual is not Armenian. His ancestors opted to live in fear rather then fight, they most likly did betray other Armenians, essentially, they assimilated into Turkish culture out of shame for what they had done. And as for the rest of the Armenians in Turkey, all them are traitors and should reevaluate their existence. Living under the umbrella of a government that on a daily basis plots with Azeribaijan on how to divide Armenia, would in any reasonable persons opinion be considered a traitor. Yes, maybe "mersivan", regardless, the point is there exists a clear chain of implications that when employed will seperate the truth from the lie. First, begin by asking yourself, how could a third generation "Armenian" exist in Turkey, that will lead you to the truth.

[arshaluys]

Re: Armenians from turkey

Virgil,u do not have a right to judge all armenians in turkey like this.Your comment is illogical..My mother's grandmother(Arshaluys)'s family was all killed like the other Armenians.Arshaluys was a 5 year old girl and could do nothing about this crime.Her family was killed.You should think about human's nature too.If i was an armenian in 1915,i believe i would fight turks.But i wouldnt blame those that changed their religion really because the crime and the badness was so big and terrible.Lastly and probably my last post on this forum is,if u feel the pain of the past,imo u are still an armenian.

[Selpak]

Re: Armenians from turkey

Use facebook dude. Type an Armenian name (such as Lerna, Sevan or Hay Club, Armenian XXX) to facebook. Because of your ip, first results will be Turkish Armenians. Than try your chance.

[Virgil]

Re: Armenians from turkey

Virgil,u do not have a right to judge all armenians in turkey like this.Your comment is illogical..My mother's grandmother(Arshaluys)'s family was all killed like the other Armenians.Arshaluys was a 5 year old girl and could do nothing about this crime.Her family was killed.You should think about human's nature too.If i was an armenian in 1915,i believe i would fight turks.But i wouldnt blame those that changed their religion really because the crime and the badness was so big and terrible.Lastly and probably my last post on this forum is,if u feel the pain of the past,imo u are still an armenian.

There is nothing illogical about my stance, if anything, my stance is very logical. I don't consider anyone that is a "mix", a Armenian, the reality is etched in the basic fundimentals of identity construction, let alone a Armenian that is a 7/8 Turk or Kurd, non-white, and/or muslim. Your grandmother was old enough to know the truth, which means she was old enough to make the right decision and get away from Turks and Kurds, instead she opened her legs to one and now 3 generations later the bastard offspring has no right to let alone come here and claim to be Armenian, let alone, come here and tell me, a full Armenian and Christian, what constitutes a "Armenian". You are a Turk with Armenian ancestry. Your grandmother gave herself to the very element that killed her family, raped her mother and father (During the genocide many Armenian fathers were raped in front of their families by Turkish soldiers, meaning the phallus of a Turk was stuck into the hole the normal man deficates from, most of them, in fact all of them, commited suicide), and butchered her siblings, I will die before I accept such a bastard person into the Armenian community.

Yes, I am sure you will find Armenians that will accept you as a Armenian even though the blood of a Turk and Kurd flows through you, but not I, never, ever, not even if I am the only Armenian left in the world will I mate with someone with Turkish and Kurdish blood in them, its a matter of principle, principle that you will never understand in your lifetime. And acceptence from what entity? "Turkish-Armenians", also known as Christian Turks? Go ahead, go seek approval, the very legitimacy of the Turkish Republic is bolstered by the existence of Armenians there. Today, one of the main reasons why the Genocide has a other side is because of Turkish-Armenians, when Armenians were being butchered the "Bolsahyes" were watching them from the safty of the mosque. No, like I said before you and your fellow Christian Turks can continue living in your dillusional state, the reality is you live in and will die in the a state that spits on the memory of your ancestors and has violated anything and everything sacred to you.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenians from turkey

let him speak with us and learn our language if he wants. There is no wrong with that. He wants to explore part of his history. I am 1/8 Swiss, does that mean I shouldn't inquire about my Swiss heritage, even though it is purely auxiliary to my Armenian identity? I cannot go around saying I'm Swiss. I can't back it up with anything. But I can still learn about it and understand the ethos of the Swiss people. I just know that I can never be Swiss, that's all.

And Virgil, my parents are Bolsahyes, they come from a long background of lost Armenians, although they speak the language and identify themselves as Armenian. I am the only one in my extensive family who wants to change this, at least for myself. I am pondering ways in which I can achieve this. Do you have suggestions? I already am going to visit Armenia for the first time (my family in Montreal has never been there) with my piano teacher in two years if all goes well (it will be her first time too, and it was a request from her late father that she had not accomplished for the longest time), we'll go there in 2 years. I want to see it very much, know what Armenia is really about!

[Virgil]

Re: Armenians from turkey

let him speak with us and learn our language if he wants. There is no wrong with that. He wants to explore part of his history. I am 1/8 Swiss, does that mean I shouldn't inquire about my Swiss heritage, even though it is purely auxiliary to my Armenian identity? I cannot go around saying I'm Swiss. I can't back it up with anything. But I can still learn about it and understand the ethos of the Swiss people. I just know that I can never be Swiss, that's all.

John (John for jgk3, just easier to communicate with you using the alias "John"), you are a very forgiving and understanding person, I wish all Armenians, including myself have the "big hearted nature" such as yourself, but comparing being 1/8th swiss to being 7/8th moselman Turk yev Kurd, is a "big comparison". Understand the underlying principles and motives of my reply. You have a individual that is 7/8th Turk and Kurd, right? Right, ask yourself this, knowing full well the historical anticedents (i.e. the grandmother's family was butchered by Turks, her family's property stolen by Kurds, and most likly, her identity being forced upon her), knowing full well these facts, why would anyone in their rights mind push themselves towards Turks and Kurds by marrying into them? What kind of idiot and worthless individual does this to themselves? What is the logic? These questions cycle themselves in my head, it makes no sense other then to finally admit that only a worthless human being and even worthless Armenian would succomb to such stupidity, to escape the lions den only to volunterly trek back into the den? What kind of idiot does this? A metz esh, furthermore, what kind of dumbass would take this person seriously? Come on, your ancestory was butchered by a Turk and now the same blood flows through you, how could you take this person seriously? I wouldn't, I hope the majority does not as well and to give this person a podium? The right to dicate who is Armenian? To abolish themselves and their ancestors crime?

Yes, it is a crime and anyone that supporst criminals is a accessory to the crime, rudimentary laws of common sense. The reality is that this person does not deserve to learn Armenian, "be among us", not even for a split second, not even for a infitisimal second, never. The idea that 7/8th of this persons DNA is Turkish and Kurdish is just repulsive, its a slap in the face to me, you, and the grandmother's family. The way I see it, yec surp gortzhem onnoom era entaniki comitz (Essentially, I am the archangel, the avenging angl, that is working for the good of this persons ancestors) and if I don't say it or confront him who will? You? "Ara Baliozian"? The rest the forum members that are not brave enough (For what ever reason) to call a spade a spade? A wrong a wrong? Understand, people like me are the final barrier that is stoping full blown assimilation from spreading and it is people like me that are "pasphaneling" any ounce of pativ you have remaining in this world as a Armenian, we don't have much left, but the small amount vor ka, I am protecting, people like me.

And Virgil, my parents are Bolsahyes, they come from a long background of lost Armenians, although they speak the language and identify themselves as Armenian. I am the only one in my extensive family who wants to change this, at least for myself. I am pondering ways in which I can achieve this. Do you have suggestions? I already am going to visit Armenia for the first time (my family in Montreal has never been there) with my piano teacher in two years if all goes well (it will be her first time too, and it was a request from her late father that she had not accomplished for the longest time), we'll go there in 2 years. I want to see it very much, know what Armenia is really about!

You are fullfilling your destiny, my suggestion is outlined in previous posts. Yetta du petka eskhan shav khasesh, at least, bare minimum, lav ghortzi yev lav entanik khazmi vor upghahoom ko entanika karokhanak etta heth hyeucstan. Essentially, the drive and motive has to be there, it is your duty to engrain into your future family members. A person is not a failure for commiting mistakes, a person is a failure when he or she commits the same mistake twice (i.e. your ancestors made a mistakes, it is up to you to redeem them, maybe by doing so, their martyrdom was not invain).

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenians from turkey

I've been on this forum (along with many other Armenian realms in cyberspace) and the one thing I learned (from the likes of Armenian and Virgil) is that being Armenian is much more than having Armenian blood...especially if you live outside Armenia.

Armenian has said many times that Armenians in the Diaspora is a dead-end as assimilation is inevitable...he is 100% right. He also said that trying to fight this natural phenomenon is useless and it will only frustrate you...again he is right.
Since I have had my Armenia re-birth (if you will), I have become much more sensitive to this phenomenon as I notice the utter lack of Armenian identity that exists in the Armenian community where I am from (including my own family). In short, take away the IAN on most of these diasporans and you have another American who has a vast knowledge of the characters on Sex In the City...this nonsense disintegrates the Armenian soul.

As Virgil said so eloquently, "Essentially, the drive and motive has to be there, it is your duty to engrain into your future family members. A person is not a failure for commiting mistakes, a person is a failure when he or she commits the same mistake twice (i.e. your ancestors made a mistakes, it is up to you to redeem them, maybe by doing so, their martyrdom was not invain)."

...well, I for one will do my best to redeem my ancestors.

I have started by learning (acutely) my history; I have learned my alphabet; I am practicing my language (which was never taught to me); I have married a Hye-a-ser woman who will be giving birth to our 100% Armenian baby in June; Finally, I have purchased a nice apartment in Yerevan with medium term plans to move to there while my child is young so that he /she has the opportunity that wasn't afforded to me...that is to be Armenian in all aspects of his being.