Barev

[Mukuch]

Re: Barev

Well now we got a very nice Zaza/Alevi thread on our Armenian forum!

By the way, wellcome Jam.

[Jam]

Re: Barev

Many janissaries also belonged to Bektashi order during the Ottoman period, but they were not Alevi's, they were Sunni's. The Janissaries did not necessarily have a Bektashi outlook and most were not Bektashi dervishes. However, they accepted Hajji Bektashi as their founder and spiritual guard. Sultan Mahmud II banded the Janissaries in 1826 and ordered the deaths of many, while at the same time he closed all Bektashi tekkes.

Maybe you confused them with Alevi-Bektashi's

Well those janissaries belonged to Bektashi order and later both Kizilbash and Bektashi were called Alevi. A lot of those janissaries were actually European that were taken away from their family at a very young age. Most of them were Orthodox Christians from Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece. These people fought for Ottomans against Europeans, Arabs and also Persians.

There are a lot of differences between a Zaza Alevi from Dersim and a Turkish Alevi from Konya, Izmir, Kütahya and other cities.

• We Alevis from Dersim do not pray in a mosque.
• We drink alcohol and some young people even consume pork.
• We are getting baptized 40 days after birth.
• We used to pray to sun and fire has an important role just like in Zoroastrianism.
• We have saints and holy places such as mountains, rivers and lakes.
• We have monks called "pir" that travel around and give prayers.
• People used to wear white clothes just like Zoroastrians and even had a similar belt that Zoroastrians wear.

For Bektashi Alevis a lot of things I mentioned above are unfamilar. Lately I see more and more Bektashi and Turkish Alevis that go to mosque to pray and fast in Ramadan. Alevis of Dersim never do that!

[Alevigirl88]

Re: Barev

Kizilbash Alevis which are Zazas and a few Kurds practice their religion different than Bektashi Alevis which are Turks. Kizilbash were mostly supporters of Iran and Armenia. Whereas Bektashi were pro-Ottoman and Turkish.

Many janissaries also belonged to Bektashi order during the Ottoman period, but they were not Alevi's, they were Sunni's. The Janissaries did not necessarily have a Bektashi outlook and most were not Bektashi dervishes. However, they accepted Hajji Bektashi as their founder and spiritual guard. Sultan Mahmud II banded the Janissaries in 1826 and ordered the deaths of many, while at the same time he closed all Bektashi tekkes.

Maybe you confused them with Alevi-Bektashi's

[Alevigirl88]

Re: Barev

Kizilbash Alevis which are Zazas and a few Kurds practice their religion different than Bektashi Alevis which are Turks. Kizilbash were mostly supporters of Iran and Armenia. Whereas Bektashi were pro-Ottoman and Turkish.

Where are you from?

Bektashi pro-Ottoman?? Where did you get that from?

I'm from Corum. My ancestors came in 1826 from Sivas to Corum, because they had done things that pissed off the authorities, so they had to escape. Before Sivas they lived in Malatya and Kars.

[Jam]

Re: Barev

Hey Jam,

have you heard of Ishikism and did you read the books of Erdogan Cinar?

Hi Alevigirl.

I had never heard of Ishikism and Erdigan Cinar. I have to say that Alevism is definetly not easy to explain so different people describe in a diffrent way.

Kizilbash Alevis which are Zazas and a few Kurds practice their religion different than Bektashi Alevis which are Turks. Kizilbash were mostly supporters of Iran and Armenia. Whereas Bektashi were pro-Ottoman and Turkish. Dersim (Tunceli) is the only city where Alevis are majority and that's why I think it is less influenced by Islam and more pure. There are a lot of things we do that Turkish Alevis have not even heard about it.

Where are you from?

[Alevigirl88]

Re: Barev

Alevi faith that is practiced in Tunceli is a mix of Zoroastrianism, Shia Islam and Christianity. So, I am interested in our roots and ancient culture that is why I put that.

Hey Jam,

have you heard of Ishikism and did you read the books of Erdogan Cinar?

[MrHyeSev]

Re: Barev

Welcome Jam

[Jam]

Re: Barev

@ Lucin:

There are around 3 to 4 million Zazas living in Turkey. Since, ethnicity is not being asked numbers of non-Turks in Turkey is unknown.

@ other members:

thank you guys for welcoming me.

[Anoush]

Re: Barev

Welcome to the forum Jam. I hope you're stay in here will be enjoyable and enlightening for you.

[Lucin]

Re: Barev

Hello Lucin. Thanks for the welcome. Actually one can find a lot of information about Zazas in internet.

Zazas are people of Iranian heritage that live in Eastern Anatolia. Dersim (Tunceli), Erzincan, Elazig (Xarpet), Bingöl (Cholig), Varto and North Diyarbakir are mostly Zaza populated areas. Half of Zazas are Alevis, which live mostly in the north whereas Sunni Muslim Zazas live in the south. Zazas call their language also Kirmancki, Dimili, Sobe or just Zazaki, which is the same language but different dialects.

Zazas should not be confused with Kurds, since Zazaish is not a Kurdish language or dialect. Tunceli for sure and maybe Elazig are the only cities in Turkey where a Zaza majority live.

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation, I was going to assume wrongly that you're Kurds. I wonder whether the majority of Zazas are as conscious and proud of their roots and unique heritage as you? And what's your total number?

The picture you see in my avatar is called Faravahar or also called Fravashi, which is the symbol of a Zoroastrian angel. It stands for good thoughts, good words, good deeds, loyalty and fidelity. Symbol of Zoroastrianism is fire.

Yea, I know it's the Persian فروهر . I can confidently say that it's the most popular (the most sold) accessory today in Iran, among the Iranian youth. Despite being Muslums, they are very conscious of their national heritage, especially the younger generations. Incidentally I visited Persepolis like four months ago and I must say it was breathtaking...

I chose that because I know that Iranians and Iranics used to be Zoroastrians before they were forced to convert to Islam. Alevi faith that is practiced in Tunceli is a mix of Zoroastrianism, Shia Islam and Christianity. So, I am interested in our roots and ancient culture that is why I put that. I also think to convert in a few years.

Very nice... again I had heard some confusing, contradictory information about the Alevi faith. Thanks for the clarification and stay active.

If you could tell me more about Alevi faith in deatils or introduce some reliable sources, it'd be great!