Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

[Mher]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

But what exactly is an Armenian family with Armenian values. After all, unfortunately we are so spread out across the world, with huge diasporas from Iran to France to Uruguay, it is not like there is a single standard model of growing up as an Armenian, in a standard Armenian community. If one was to dedicate him or herself to becoming Armenian, they could eventually integrate themselves into an Armenian community. Now it seems like this is not necessarily her concern, and as you say, she wants to remain american at core, but if one wanted to, I can not see why they wouldn't be able to integrate themselves into an Armenian culture, and even move to Armenia.

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

But what exactly is an Armenian family with Armenian values. After all, unfortunately we are so spread out across the world, with huge diasporas from Iran to France to Uruguay, it is not like there is a single standard model of growing up as an Armenian, in a standard Armenian community. If one was to dedicate him or herself to becoming Armenian, they could eventually integrate themselves into an Armenian community. Now it seems like this is not necessarily her concern, and as you say, she wants to remain american at core, but if one wanted to, I can not see why they wouldn't be able to integrate themselves into an Armenian culture, and even move to Armenia.

Of course there isn't a standard model, but Armenian parents can still raise their kids Armenian, speak Armenian in the house, teach them about Armenian history and culture, expose them to culture and history through events, grow up in an Armenian community, go to Armenian church, and so on. There are many steps that can be taken for kids to grow up as Armenian. I can't talk about each and every "value", as it's a more abstract concept that comes about growing up. It's very hard for someone who has grown up as a foreigner to all of a sudden change that core with which he has grown up with. "Armenian" is just like any other foreign culture to that person, so the person is can just as easily chose, let's say Chinese culture. Again, I bring the example of being Chinese. Could I if I wanted to become Chinese right now? Could I work hard and go to China and interact with other Chinese like I've grown up as Chinese? Of course not, I could may at a surface level, but not anything more.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Of course there isn't a standard model, but Armenian parents can still raise their kids Armenian, speak Armenian in the house, teach them about Armenian history and culture, expose them to culture and history through events, grow up in an Armenian community, go to Armenian church, and so on. There are many steps that can be taken for kids to grow up as Armenian. I can't talk about each and every "value", as it's a more abstract concept that comes about growing up. It's very hard for someone who has grown up as a foreigner to all of a sudden change that core with which he has grown up with. "Armenian" is just like any other foreign culture to that person, so the person is can just as easily chose, let's say Chinese culture. Again, I bring the example of being Chinese. Could I if I wanted to become Chinese right now? Could I work hard and go to China and interact with other Chinese like I've grown up as Chinese? Of course not, I could may at a surface level, but not anything more.

I really don't think a lot of Armenians were thinking this far ahead when they decided to migrate to the "west". Honestly, they wanted a better future for their children but didn't really think their children would get lost in "assimilation". The Armenian diaspora really took a fall in the last half a century.

[Hyegirl]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Of course there isn't a standard model, but Armenian parents can still raise their kids Armenian, speak Armenian in the house, teach them about Armenian history and culture, expose them to culture and history through events, grow up in an Armenian community, go to Armenian church, and so on. There are many steps that can be taken for kids to grow up as Armenian. I can't talk about each and every "value", as it's a more abstract concept that comes about growing up. It's very hard for someone who has grown up as a foreigner to all of a sudden change that core with which he has grown up with. "Armenian" is just like any other foreign culture to that person, so the person is can just as easily chose, let's say Chinese culture. Again, I bring the example of being Chinese. Could I if I wanted to become Chinese right now? Could I work hard and go to China and interact with other Chinese like I've grown up as Chinese? Of course not, I could may at a surface level, but not anything more.

I was not the one presuming anything about changing identity over night. You presumed that I expected something to change over night.

I did grow up with some Armenian culture/family (long before the community involvement while in college), just not the 20-something years of deep saturation in the culture I think so highly of. If you grew up around Chinese people in your life, I mean as an integral part, not a distant acquaintance something that notably influences your childhood and young adulthood, then and only then can your example be valid. The fact that as a child how others saw me and my fair-skinned complexion influenced how I saw myself does not mean it influenced how I saw the world, something that you would not understand well because you have not grown up in a society where your family culture differs from those around you.

Of course to your mind, none of this matters because I didn't grow up 100% Armenian and therefore will either only ever growing to be 0% Armenian at heart or will presume that I can be 100% Armenian at heart overnight. I don't think you can begin to understand the depth of insult that it is to say that something deeply important and real in my life cannot be there or is not there are all because it does not fit the fullness of your standards. And you still think you have not divided or alienated?

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

I really don't think a lot of Armenians were thinking this far ahead when they decided to migrate to the "west". Honestly, they wanted a better future for their children but didn't really think their children would get lost in "assimilation". The Armenian diaspora really took a fall in the last half a century.

Assimilation forces in places like US, Canada, etc. are very strong than assimilation forces in countries such as Germany. Often you have families be poisoned by the corrosive Western culture and assimilation just end the Armenian line right there. It's tragedy some of the things happening with assimilation. But I would put the blame mostly on the parents for not taking initiative.

I was not the one presuming anything about changing identity over night. You seemed to think I would presume to do so.

I did grow up with some Armenian culture/family, just not the 20-something years of deep saturation in the culture I think so highly of. If you grew up around Chinese people in your life, I mean as an integral part, not a distant acquaintance something that notably influences your childhood and young adulthood, then and only then can your example be valid.

It is clear from your posts that you have grown up as an American, clear and simple. Your core is American. My example of the chinese was if I wanted to change my core. I could not change the core, maybe I could change at the surface, but that means not that much.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Assimilation forces in places like US, Canada, etc. are very strong than assimilation forces in countries such as Germany. Often you have families be poisoned by the corrosive Western culture and assimilation just end the Armenian line right there. It's tragedy some of the things happening with assimilation. But I would put the blame mostly on the parents for not taking initiative.

I agree to some point but there are many examples where Armenian kids were raised in the community, spoke Armenian, etc. but still married a non-Armenian. There was a study done recently in Canada that male and female immigrants differ in that females are more social and can learn language quicker and blend into their new society/surroundings while males have a harder time dealing with their new cultural surroundings. I also think males experience racism while females are like chameleons.... they can "change their colours".

[Hyegirl]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

It is clear from your posts that you have grown up as an American, clear and simple. Your core is American. My example of the chinese was if I wanted to change my core. I could not change the core, maybe I could change at the surface, but that means not that much.

Would it be too much of a metaphysical concept for you to explain how my initial post here demonstrated a 100% American core and not a 95% or 90% American core?

And could you at least apologize for the presumption on your part that I would think I would suddenly be all Armenian overnight?

And when I say our genocide, I met my family that let Armenia, and that was my family, who they were matters and it influenced my mom's upbringing, and she is my family. That will never change.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Would it be too much of a metaphysical concept for you to explain how my initial post here demonstrated a 100% American core and not a 90% American core?

And could you at least apologize for the presumption on your part that I would think I would suddenly be all Armenian overnight?

-You're from a mixed Family.
-Didn't grow up Armenian.
-You picked lokum as a food... which is leaning more towards the Turkish side of Armenian food.

Although I think that if someone truly looks into their history and somehow "finds themselves", sometimes the draw into their heritage can be extremely potent. This can only be explained by perhaps a feeling of being "robbed" of their culture and heritage.

[Hyegirl]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

-You're from a mixed Family.
-Didn't grow up Armenian.
-You picked lokum as a food... which is leaning more towards the Turkish side of Armenian food.

Although I think that if someone truly looks into their history and somehow "finds themselves", sometimes the draw into their heritage can be extremely potent.

Does mixed mean none at all?

I didn't say I didn't grow up Armenian. I just said that it was not as Armenian as I would have liked. How did you get that I didn't grow up Armenian?

Lokum was one of the only ones I can spell. My mom has been too sick over the last 15 years to do much of the cooking. Choregg is one of my fav, and the name pizza-like dish with the meat on the flat bread completely evades my memory at the moment. When I was five, my brother and I made our mom stop making fassoulia because we did not like the veggie taste. I haven't quite got the recipe down now that I like it again. And part of my family came from what is now Turkey. It was called Lokum back in the day in New Jersey. Now we usually have to settle for "Turkish delight" from the local middle eastern markets except for the rare occasion I get out to Los Angels.

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

I agree to some point but there are many examples where Armenian kids were raised in the community, spoke Armenian, etc. but still married a non-Armenian. There was a study done recently in Canada that male and female immigrants differ in that females are more social and can learn language quicker and blend into their new society/surroundings while males have a harder time dealing with their new cultural surroundings. I also think males experience racism while females are like chameleons.... they can "change their colours".

Of course such an upbringing doesn't 100% ensure that the person will remain loyal to the culture. The corrosive Western culture as its ways, but of course chances are much, much higher the person will respect the culture and values. There is such a degradation in the Western assimilation, for example, spitting on the family ("rebellion") and viewing the family's culture and customs as "backwards". All this revolves around a fake and disgusting hollywood culture that has invaded so many places and is so good at assimilating people into a bland soup. America continues to export this culture to the world and thus continues a cultural imperialism (in addition to a military one). In the end, fighting assimilation lies with the parents firstly, and then after sometime the child and his view of his identity and willingness not to assimilate.

Would it be too much of a metaphysical concept for you to explain how my initial post here demonstrated a 100% American core and not a 95% or 90% American core?

And could you at least apologize for the presumption on your part that I would think I would suddenly be all Armenian overnight?

And when I say our genocide, I met my family that let Armenia, and that was my family, who they were matters and it influenced my mom's upbringing, and she is my family. That will never change.

You come to an Armenian forum wanting to learn more about Armenian culture and values. It's pretty obvious your situation and intentions. I was merely making a valid statement about identity and how any identity, including Armenian, is attained. Which is not through blood, but more through the important upbringing of one. It's as simple as that and nothing I said is controversial or disputed. In pursuing your interest of Armenian culture and history, you should keep this notion of identity in mind, so your direction is not skewed.