Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

[Hyegirl]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Of course there isn't a standard model, but Armenian parents can still raise their kids Armenian, speak Armenian in the house, teach them about Armenian history and culture, expose them to culture and history through events, grow up in an Armenian community, go to Armenian church, and so on. There are many steps that can be taken for kids to grow up as Armenian. I can't talk about each and every "value", as it's a more abstract concept that comes about growing up. It's very hard for someone who has grown up as a foreigner to all of a sudden change that core with which he has grown up with. "Armenian" is just like any other foreign culture to that person, so the person is can just as easily chose, let's say Chinese culture. Again, I bring the example of being Chinese. Could I if I wanted to become Chinese right now? Could I work hard and go to China and interact with other Chinese like I've grown up as Chinese? Of course not, I could may at a surface level, but not anything more.

I was not the one presuming anything about changing identity over night. You presumed that I expected something to change over night.

I did grow up with some Armenian culture/family (long before the community involvement while in college), just not the 20-something years of deep saturation in the culture I think so highly of. If you grew up around Chinese people in your life, I mean as an integral part, not a distant acquaintance something that notably influences your childhood and young adulthood, then and only then can your example be valid. The fact that as a child how others saw me and my fair-skinned complexion influenced how I saw myself does not mean it influenced how I saw the world, something that you would not understand well because you have not grown up in a society where your family culture differs from those around you.

Of course to your mind, none of this matters because I didn't grow up 100% Armenian and therefore will either only ever growing to be 0% Armenian at heart or will presume that I can be 100% Armenian at heart overnight. I don't think you can begin to understand the depth of insult that it is to say that something deeply important and real in my life cannot be there or is not there are all because it does not fit the fullness of your standards. And you still think you have not divided or alienated?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Of course there isn't a standard model, but Armenian parents can still raise their kids Armenian, speak Armenian in the house, teach them about Armenian history and culture, expose them to culture and history through events, grow up in an Armenian community, go to Armenian church, and so on. There are many steps that can be taken for kids to grow up as Armenian. I can't talk about each and every "value", as it's a more abstract concept that comes about growing up. It's very hard for someone who has grown up as a foreigner to all of a sudden change that core with which he has grown up with. "Armenian" is just like any other foreign culture to that person, so the person is can just as easily chose, let's say Chinese culture. Again, I bring the example of being Chinese. Could I if I wanted to become Chinese right now? Could I work hard and go to China and interact with other Chinese like I've grown up as Chinese? Of course not, I could may at a surface level, but not anything more.

I really don't think a lot of Armenians were thinking this far ahead when they decided to migrate to the "west". Honestly, they wanted a better future for their children but didn't really think their children would get lost in "assimilation". The Armenian diaspora really took a fall in the last half a century.

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

But what exactly is an Armenian family with Armenian values. After all, unfortunately we are so spread out across the world, with huge diasporas from Iran to France to Uruguay, it is not like there is a single standard model of growing up as an Armenian, in a standard Armenian community. If one was to dedicate him or herself to becoming Armenian, they could eventually integrate themselves into an Armenian community. Now it seems like this is not necessarily her concern, and as you say, she wants to remain american at core, but if one wanted to, I can not see why they wouldn't be able to integrate themselves into an Armenian culture, and even move to Armenia.

Of course there isn't a standard model, but Armenian parents can still raise their kids Armenian, speak Armenian in the house, teach them about Armenian history and culture, expose them to culture and history through events, grow up in an Armenian community, go to Armenian church, and so on. There are many steps that can be taken for kids to grow up as Armenian. I can't talk about each and every "value", as it's a more abstract concept that comes about growing up. It's very hard for someone who has grown up as a foreigner to all of a sudden change that core with which he has grown up with. "Armenian" is just like any other foreign culture to that person, so the person is can just as easily chose, let's say Chinese culture. Again, I bring the example of being Chinese. Could I if I wanted to become Chinese right now? Could I work hard and go to China and interact with other Chinese like I've grown up as Chinese? Of course not, I could may at a surface level, but not anything more.

[Mher]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

But what exactly is an Armenian family with Armenian values. After all, unfortunately we are so spread out across the world, with huge diasporas from Iran to France to Uruguay, it is not like there is a single standard model of growing up as an Armenian, in a standard Armenian community. If one was to dedicate him or herself to becoming Armenian, they could eventually integrate themselves into an Armenian community. Now it seems like this is not necessarily her concern, and as you say, she wants to remain american at core, but if one wanted to, I can not see why they wouldn't be able to integrate themselves into an Armenian culture, and even move to Armenia.

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Mos jan: You must also understand that if one is as dedicated and passionate, like she seems to be, they can change their culture. If they dedicate themselves, they can evolve into an Armenian.
Remember that Monte Melkonian, our beloved hero, did not even know he was Armenian until he was 12, and did not speak the language until he was 20. He was much more American than Armogirl seems to be. While culturally she might not be very Armenian, cultural Monte was absolutely 0 percent Armenian. Now I am not saying she has 1/100th of the heart or dedication that Monte had, but you should give her a chance. It's not like there is that many of us, that we can afford to lose people who want to contribute to our cause.

So I can become Chinese if I really want to? You may be able to become Armenian at a surface point, but you can't be Armenian as a Armenian who grew up Armenian. One cannot gain what a person gains through childhood and upbringing. That's a once in a lifetime chance. I may work very hard to become Chinese, but I will never be part of Chinese society like if I grew up as a Chinese. Monte is an interesting example, and even though a great patriot, he differed in many ways from his men in values and mindset on the battlefield. He was a unique soldier. Not saying that uniqueness was bad, but it just comes to show the natural divide that existed. I am not saying this girl shouldn't learn about Armenian culture and history, she should. But she should not fall into the illusion that one can become 'Armenian' overnight or any identity for that matter (except for identities such as American, Australian, etc). Identity is not forged like that. She will always stay American at her core (I believe she even said this) though she will just be acquainted with Armenian culture which is a good thing. You cannot get that Armenian core without growing up in an Armenian family as an Armenian. This is not an object, but a deeper metaphysical concept.

[Mher]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Mos jan: You must also understand that if one is as dedicated and passionate, like she seems to be, they can change their culture. If they dedicate themselves, they can evolve into an Armenian.
Remember that Monte Melkonian, our beloved hero, did not even know he was Armenian until he was 12, and did not speak the language until he was 20. He was much more American than Hyegirl seems to be. While culturally she might not be very Armenian, cultural Monte was absolutely 0 percent Armenian. Now I am not saying she has 1/100th of the heart or dedication that Monte had, but you should give her a chance. It's not like there is that many of us, that we can afford to lose people who want to contribute to our cause.

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Once people, emigrate they tend to assimilate and part of the problem with America is that it has no real culture or heritage.

Yes assimilation is a major problem and one of the biggest threats to our people, but assimilation is often the fault of the parents also. One doesn't have to assimilate and can be raised as a Armenian in a foreign land, especially if they grow up within a sizeable Armenian community. The key is raising the children with Armenian language, values, and culture over anything else.

[retro]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

All I'm saying is that because of your upbringing and development you will always stay American. Now the Armenian culture to you seems to be more an "exotic interest" at the moment and maybe an attempt to add something more to the bland American identity or an identity crisis - that's how it seems to me.

Once people, emigrate they tend to assimilate and part of the problem with America is that it has no real culture or heritage.

[Mos]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Hyegirl: "I am looking to learn more about being Armenian instead of just American".
You: "It's too late I'm afraid. If you haven't grown up as Armenian there's little you can do".
Hyegirl: "I'm sorry I wasn't raised Armenian enough for you. I will just give up on caring about it and walk away."
You: "Upbringing and mindset is much more important than blood, because you will very often see pure Armenians who are the farthest thing from Armenian."
Hyegirl: "MOS, maybe you should give me some benefit of the doubt and get to know me from more than a couple of posts before you judge me and my motives/perceptions."
You: "I learned enough from your few posts."

Do you still deny that all you do is divide and alienate? And that you don't act like a self-styled "Superior Armenian" able to decide who is truly Armenian and who isn't?

I never divided or alienated anyone. What I'm saying is based on a universal definition of identity. I can't wake up tomorrow and say all of a sudden that I am Chinese. Identity is a metaphysical concept that is attained through one's upbringing and what values and mindset that person grows up with. There's nothing wrong with this definition and it's a rather universal definition of identity.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Hello and Parev (getting in touch with my roots, and not with hair dye)

Hyegirl: "I am looking to learn more about being Armenian instead of just American".
You: "It's too late I'm afraid. If you haven't grown up as Armenian there's little you can do".
Hyegirl: "I'm sorry I wasn't raised Armenian enough for you. I will just give up on caring about it and walk away."
You: "Upbringing and mindset is much more important than blood, because you will very often see pure Armenians who are the farthest thing from Armenian."
Hyegirl: "MOS, maybe you should give me some benefit of the doubt and get to know me from more than a couple of posts before you judge me and my motives/perceptions."
You: "I learned enough from your few posts."

Do you still deny that all you do is divide and alienate? And that you don't act like a self-styled "Superior Armenian" able to decide who is truly Armenian and who isn't?