Parev/hello from Istanbul

[Mos]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

By 'many', I don't see what percentage you mean. Neither I nor you can closely guess this.

Just know that more and more Turks are speaking out against the state/government, in favor of genocide being acknowledged. Of course there is a long way to go and many fascists to fight against.

But, just know that it is not so easy for me to make dialogue with an Armenian nationalist, just like it is not so easy for me to make dialogue with a Turkish nationalist. But I am trying to make a constructive dialogue with you. And, know that I share your grief about 1915.

Well I hope that trend continues till the state also changes their mind. Of course, I'm rather pessimistic on it, because Turks have always been heavily nationalistic and stubbornly proud of themselves. They still worship Ataturk like a God. Probably more likely to see Ataturku Akbar rather than Allahu Akbar.....

[Antifascist]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Sorry for multiple posts my editor is on vacation and the secretary didn't show up( again ).
A burning question I have for you : what are your compatriots that you walk amongst in your daily life persepsions about all the people that have ( vanished ). Do they ever question why that place has so many Turks
and every one else is a minority?
Artashes

Many Turkish people have been poisoned with the fascist educational system here, which still has so many lies about history. Also, the local media has mostly been a tool of such fascism. But in recent years, more and more people here are waking up to reality/facts. Internet has been a big positive tool in this aspect too.

[Antifascist]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Many Turks willingly supported the Genocidal efforts during the early 1900s, which included acts against innocent people that only backwards, nomadic tribes would do. If not participating then supporting vocally. Till this day many see the barbarism as justified - such people have no place in the civilised world.

By 'many', I don't see what percentage you mean. Neither I nor you can closely guess this.

Just know that more and more Turks are speaking out against the state/government, in favor of genocide being acknowledged. Of course there is a long way to go and many fascists to fight against.

But, just know that it is not so easy for me to make dialogue with an Armenian nationalist, just like it is not so easy for me to make dialogue with a Turkish nationalist. But I am trying to make a constructive dialogue with you. And, know that I share your grief about 1915.

[Antifascist]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Paaaaaaaaaaaarev - paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarev!

I see you are a real anti-fascist, therefore you have a lot to do in Turkey; alas it will take time for you fighting 70m-50m= 20,000,000 seljuk-Turks.

But I see you are brave man and you started to fight fascism outside of Turkey; first.

Good luck and don't forget fighting the rest of fascists in Turkey, at the end!!!

But please be careful at "opposing fascism and nationalism of ANY KIND" inside Turkey. We don't have too many anti-fascist fighters there, take care.

Hi, Gegev.

Thanks.

I should stress that the fight against fascism should be an internationalist effort.

[Antifascist]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Artashes,

I am a human being WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE Turkish.

There are people in Turkey who think like me on the genocide issue. Of course, I cannot give you a percentage. And, of course, you also cannot come up with a percentage. Yes, we are in the minority but even if 10 percent of Turks think 1915 is a genocide, doesn't that show you that there are so many Turks with whom you can get into dialogue ?
Also please don't forget that many people here are still afraid to speak out against 'official line of thought/history'.

I attended the 24 April remembrance ceremony here in Istanbul last month. There were a few thousand people there (I think 3,000 people was a guess of some organisers). Of course, we wish the number was higher. But I hope the numbers will be higher as time passes.

I am telling you that I wish the government here acknowledged the genocide. What else can I say ?

I see myself as a human being first; and then as Turkish. I am an internationalist. I know that nationalists don't like me. Not only Turkish nationalists but also nationalists from other countries don't like people like me. The reason is they have been poisoned with the terrible ideology of nationalism.

Can't you just see someone as a human being first ? You are making comments as if I am guilty about 1915 ! That's not constructive.

[Artashes]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

I would like to clarify for sake of understanding.
As a person and as an Armenian I do not want you to think I reject or don't recognize your friendly overtures.
The question I ask you are sincere and of intense interest to me.
95 pluse years is not very long ago.
Have you ever waited till the --- old town --- went to sleep and then waited till every one was asleep and then quietly walked the streets and wondered about the people that walked those streets not so very long ago?
When you say ( I understand but let's talk about that latter or let's talk in private but I do have the time to talk with you about ( you fill in the blank ) it turns me completely off.
I am not unfriendly but if a Turk wants to walk up to me and talk about the time of day like he's an ordinary joe it ain't gonna happen without him telling me that he is HAUNTED by what his family, ancestors , peoples, compatriots have done.
The desire to be recognized as a human being while diminishing the only topic I have to discuss with a Turk
Brings me to the zero interest point.
Artashes

[gegev]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Parev/hello from Istanbul.

...
I am an anti-fascist. I oppose fascism and nationalism of ANY KIND.
Cem

Paaaaaaaaaaaarev - paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarev!

I see you are a real anti-fascist, therefore you have a lot to do in Turkey; alas it will take time for you fighting 70m-50m= 20,000,000 seljuk-Turks.

But I see you are brave man and you started to fight fascism outside of Turkey; first.

Good luck and don't forget fighting the rest of fascists in Turkey, at the end!!!

But please be careful at "opposing fascism and nationalism of ANY KIND" inside Turkey. We don't have too many anti-fascist fighters there, take care.

[Artashes]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Sorry for multiple posts my editor is on vacation and the secretary didn't show up( again ).
A burning question I have for you : what are your compatriots that you walk amongst in your daily life persepsions about all the people that have ( vanished ). Do they ever question why that place has so many Turks
and every one else is a minority?
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

I failed to include this that my family told me about their experience with Turkish subjugation :
:no matter how hard we worked
No matter how humble we were
No matter how decently and humanely we treated them
They never respected our person
Artashes

[Artashes]

Re: Parev/hello from Istanbul

Dear Artashes,

I am someone who feels very bad and also angry about what happened to Armenians in 1915 (and also before 1915; as you possibly know, massacres happened between around 1890 and 1915 too). So I am someone who sympathises fully with you. I will later tell you more about how I became more and more sensitive on this issue; this is the introductory section of the forum so I don't want to get too much into such stuff here in this section.

I personally am interested in your :more sensitive comment:
I have only met a Turk 3 times . I always walk up to within arms reach and tell them I am Armenian.
On every occasion not a word was spoken . I did not acknowledge them from that time one.
Except for a participant at some in this forum by the handle " Vagharshapat" who is a Turkish citizen I have never experienced a Turk that conveyed any decency or humanity.
My family has told me from first hand experience that at no time since the very first time your kind attacked my family and throughout all of the hundreds of years of subjugation that even at the least harsh of the years your ancestors never truly treated use with respect and that their was --- always--- the understanding
That they had the right to do physical evil to us at any time --- because they were TURKS
I am interested in how you became ? Aware of my family.
Artashes