hey every1..

[skhara]

Re: hey every1..

Go ride your donkey somewhere else! we dont give a s.h.i.t. about your "democratic donkeyland", there are 90 million turks and only 20 million Armenians on this planet, and we're not gonna waste our time trying to prove every stupid monkey! WE WILL TAKE WHAT IS OURS SOONER OR LATER...

Where on earth did you get this "20 million"? We are at best 8 million with 4 million in Armenia and the former USSR and 4 million out.

[Bitterballen]

Re: hey every1..

Go ride your donkey somewhere else! we dont give a s.h.i.t. about your "democratic donkeyland", there are 90 million turks and only 20 million Armenians on this planet, and we're not gonna waste our time trying to prove every stupid monkey! WE WILL TAKE WHAT IS OURS SOONER OR LATER...

I bet Michele Montene was talking about you when she said what's in your signature.

[skhara]

Re: hey every1..

What does that have to do with the Turks who are alive now.

"generation to generation"

Let me just quote one sentence from the topic you referred me to:

"Based upon my experiences, there are essentially three kinds of Turks:
The good: This kind wants to whitewash their role within the Armenian Genocide. This kind does apologize, but say we need to simply move on."

Personally I couldn't agree more. Instead of highlighting the dark years of your history you can better concentrate on how to build a prosperous nation with a good future. Surely that's more important than what's already behind you. So instead of fighting with Turks why don't you discuss how you can improve this: http://www.euro.who.int/eprise/main/...hic/20050623_1

That's wonderful, the topic starter described "3 types" of Turks and you agree with the "good" -- except that there are 3 points that the topic starter presented, and there is the bottom line that the topic starter presented.
So while many "liberal hippie" Armenians may entertain "the good", many don't give a crap whether they are "good", "bad", or "ugly" for it has no bearing whatsoever on the bottom line.

Lets take a little scenario and lets put you in it. Assuming that you and your family live in house which stayed in your family from generation to generation. Now lets assume a band of thugs assaulted that home, killed your parents, raped your sister, decapitated your brother, etc... you are able to hide and escape. You have children, they grow-up -- in the meanwhile the thugs have taken your family home and planted their off-spring there. Who does the home belong to? Should your children "forgive and forgett".

I find it irritating when turcophile European liberals dictate to Armenians about how Armenians "should be". The way that Armenians are is the product of the surrounding and the history.

As far as your suggestion. Don't worry Armenians are always thinking of ways to improve it -- but without any turko-zionist "cooperation". I know that puts Armenia under pressure -- but at least she isn't whoring to them. Oh and the fact that Armenia is better off then her Caucasian "neighbors", all the while under blockade from both sides and a semi-hostile neighbor to the north, with no natural resources, and no geograpic routing like Georgia is a testament in itself.

She'll be fine, and understand another thing -- the campaign of the Armenian people is based on our "cold-war" with them and we are looking to gain as much of a moral precedent now, for the inevitable "evil" we'll have to do when the opportunity to liberate our lands presents itself.

[Bitterballen]

Re: hey every1..

She'll be fine, and understand another thing -- the campaign of the Armenian people is based on our "cold-war" with them and we are looking to gain as much of a moral precedent now, for the inevitable "evil" we'll have to do when the opportunity to liberate our lands presents itself.

Just out of curiosity, when do you reckon the opportunity to liberate your land will present itself? And what exactly will you do once that opportunity arisies?

Should your children "forgive and forgett".

I'm not saying you should forget it because I remember someone saying that those who forget about history are doomed to repeat it. However, I AM saying you should forgive. The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget. So I guess that makes you.....never mind. But that's just the opinion of a turcophile European liberal who loves to dictate Armenians.

I would react to the rest of your post if it wasn't for the fact that your blind hatred for anything Turkish is blocking any form of rational debate. Or maybe that's just me. And what was Gizem thinking: asking a simple question about an historic event. IS SHE CRAZY?!

[skhara]

Re: hey every1..

Just out of curiosity, when do you reckon the opportunity to liberate your land will present itself? And what exactly will you do once that opportunity arisies?

When it does -- and whatever is necessary. In the meantime, I support no relations whatsoever.

The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget. So I guess that makes you.....never mind.

Go back to the hypothetical situation and answer the question -- who does the home belong to and what should be the reaction of your children?

And what was Gizem thinking: asking a simple question about an historic event. IS SHE CRAZY?!

It is beyond annoying for bunches of turks to come asking the same "question". There is google. Let gizem go google -- gizem will find whatever gizem wants to find -- it has no bearing on the geopolitical and geostrategic situation. Besides, you already "assisted" gizem, good for you maybe you could stick around and educate every turk who comes here with your 'impartiality' so the rest of us don't have to. And maybe you can defend Armenians when they come here to repeat the standard turkic line and insult Armenians.

[Sip]

Re: hey every1..

I don't agree. It's all just a matter of perspective. While for you the Armenian genocide may be as obvious as the Earth revolving around the sun, for Gizem exactly the opposite may be the case.

Yes and the earth revolving around the sun is still a matter of perspective (you could definitely argue that the sun is going around the earth and the rest of the solar system goes around the sun). Everyone has a perspective. It's just that some perspectives are better than others

Now instead of going into an abstract philosophical discussion where EVERYONE (including all idiots and non idiots) are allowed to have a perspective that is considered just as valid as everyone else's, let's get real:

Do you really think the Turkish attempts to weasel out of the truth behind the actual history regarding the Armenian Genocide has ANY merit?

[Anonymouse]

Re: hey every1..

Just out of curiosity, when do you reckon the opportunity to liberate your land will present itself? And what exactly will you do once that opportunity arisies?


I'm not saying you should forget it because I remember someone saying that those who forget about history are doomed to repeat it. However, I AM saying you should forgive. The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget. So I guess that makes you.....never mind. But that's just the opinion of a turcophile European liberal who loves to dictate Armenians.

I would react to the rest of your post if it wasn't for the fact that your blind hatred for anything Turkish is blocking any form of rational debate. Or maybe that's just me. And what was Gizem thinking: asking a simple question about an historic event. IS SHE CRAZY?!

Forgiveness is a fallacy. Forgiveness without true repentance is as wasted as water poured on desert sands. I will not forgive those who have wronged me and my people. I applaud your inquisitiveness my Dutch friend, but with all due respect, what will you understand of our perspective and our dilemma?

You want to talk about perspectives? Forgiveness is a perspective, and predominantly a Christian perspective, that of the slave morality. When you forgive too much you risk being a laughting stock and a painful embarassment to those who did you wrong. Forgiveness is not a bad thing where it is due, however, in this instance is not due. Why forgive those who have not seen the error of their ways?

As far as hatred and rationalism are concerned, again, we can open up cans of worms regarding these topics, but suffice to say, hatred is necessary in this world, as it is a part of this world. And rationalism is a matter of perspective.

You are new to these forums, which is why I urge caution on your part for more often than not, it is we who are witnesses to the marauding Turks who come in here with the facade of inquisitiveness as if to pretend they are interested in genuine dialogue only to reveal their true colors after a few posts, so pardon us if we happen to be a little too distrustful of what is nothing more than a routine with these Turks. In the several years that I have been to these forums, of about the 50 or 60 or so Turks that have frequented this place, maybe only about 2 or 3 of them have genuinely came to inquire. The rest have been hacks.

[karoaper]

Re: hey every1..

The naive or stupid (or both) thing to do is assume you can understand, let alone arbitrate, issues delt with by people who have gone through something you have no firsthand (and in your case even indirect) knowledge of. Tomorrow I will come up to someone who has witnessed his children murdered and his wife raped and tell him that he's stupid for being unable to forgive and forget. Who'd be the stupid one then.

In our case, take that a bit further, and see that that someone is either our greatgrandfather or great-grandmother. The nature of peoples has been changed due to such an enourmouse nationwide crime. Also, most Armenians don't foam at the mouth when they meet a Turk and they understand fully that that Turk hasn't done anything to them personally. But, for onyone to judge Armenians for being suspicious of Turks and for having nothing but contempt for the nation of Turkey, the breading ground of great-grand fathers of today's Turks, is narrowminded, because they are basically seeing the world through their own prizm of peace and understanding and forgiveness, all great theoretical concepts. It is easy to forgive when you have an experience with asomeone who has either commited very innocent crimes or has fully repented and payed for major crimes. For Armenians, Turks are not only currently commiting the last step of the genocide (I know the notion of denial of genocide being the last step of genocide is an overly used one, still it doesn't change the truth behind it), but they are also instituting vile anti-Armenian policies in today's geopolitical world.

[Sip]

Re: hey every1..

Everything anonymouse said plus:

What is there to forgive? According to the Turks that show up here in this forum, there is nothing to forgive. I am personally VERY willing to consider forgiveness as long as we are all clear what it is that is being forgiven.

[Osttruppen]

Re: hey every1..

Where on earth did you get this "20 million"? We are at best 8 million with 4 million in Armenia and the former USSR and 4 million out.

Your source says 8 million, mine says 20, you cant prove me you are right, I can't prove mine is right, so why you wrote what you wrote?