Traditional man and country

[KanadaHye]

Re: Traditional man and country

So much for my consious effort of trying not to criticise you when answering your questions or comments.If you do not have anything of substance to say then please don't say it.

But, you said you were an animal... your words, not mine. Why are you insulted?

[Haykakan]

Re: Traditional man and country

I suggest you read this http://reason.com/news/show/28346.html

Ok this is a particularly stupid article because it conects 911 and the first gulf war togather in a laughfably ineffective manner.So what is your point?

[Haykakan]

Re: Traditional man and country

But, you said you were an animal... your words, not mine. Why are you insulted?

I was not raised by wolves and i am hardly anyones footstool.Quite frankly i am tired of your ignorent and offencive remarks and i ask the moderator to intervene.I am still trying to limit my hostility twords you but ignorent and offencive i think describe you quit accuratly.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Traditional man and country

Ok this is a particularly stupid article because it conects 911 and the first gulf war togather in a laughfably ineffective manner.So what is your point?

No, it was an article about trying to deny the effects that sanctions had on the children of Iraq, leaving them malnourished, stunted and hundreds of thousands dead.

[Haykakan]

Re: Traditional man and country

No, it was an article about trying to deny the effects that sanctions had on the children of Iraq, leaving them malnourished, stunted and hundreds of thousands dead.

It also compared it to 911, but again i ask you what is your point?

[Sako]

Re: Traditional man and country

You forget humans ARE animals.

Yeah ... with a mind and senses much more advanced then any other creature on earth! That's what makes us different from animals.

Dogs don't practice serial monogomy.

...But they have sex with whichever female dog they like. Have you ever seen a dog screw her own pup? I have. My point is that serial monogomy is very similar to independant sex ... you just call it serial monogomy and I call it outrageous.

I am sure in this town you mentioned people have possesions they do not share.

Which is natural but that doesn't affect their relationship with everyone else in that town. You should also remember that in this big place, everyone lives proper, simple lives. The gov., modernization ... NOTHING affects them.

You should ALSO remember that in YOUR town, everyone got screwed when money and everything found them, lol. In this town, everything continued normally. You know why? Because everyone lived like REAL human beings...not like animals.

Even the concept of marriage is devised from owning a human being.

My views stem from years of studying and research plus other life experiences. Serial monogomy is the natural state of human behavior, this is not something i made up but it is a well researched and confirmed fact.

And why don't you think people never lived that way? Divorce doesn't exist because it's right. It exists because people aren't raised properly. It exists because people live in a xxxxed up society. Marriage isn't just something made up and it wasn't devised from "owning a human being". Marriage is the right way of life. Men and Women were created to mate, live together, have children, and raise families. They weren't meant to spread their passion around. This has also been researched and confirmed ... MANY times throughout the centuries.

If you observe people who are financially secure and independent like lets say movie or rock stars (by no means limited to these groups) you will see that these people actually revert to their basic human instinct and prefer a life of serial monogomy without even knowing the term.

You forget to mention that their lives are xxxxed up! You paint a very beautiful picture with your words making it seem like all these financially secure and "independent" individuals live happily ever after. It's the exact OPPOSITE. This type of freedom is what has screwed up this world, Haykakan and you don't need to do much research to understand that.

Our human nature is not wired to be with one partner forever and the institution of marriage/monogomy is a byproduct of economics.

I could say the exact opposite. Please prove your point.

People stayed togather and did not get divorced as much before because they were dependent on each other economicaly.

What/Which people are you talking about?

When this dependence is no longer needed (ie. both partners have a good paying job) you see divorce rates skyrocket.Humans are a very adaptable species and unlike some other animals we can change our social habits to better help us survive and prosper.Marriage and monogomy are examples of humans adapting to a cituation where changing some social structure allowed people to better survive and prosper in a new environment created around money and possesions.

Lol, is this what your research has led you to believe? I think you've been doing too much research buddy. It's embarrassing reading what you just said. So according to you, people just get married to gain possessions?!?!? I don't think you have any idea what your talking about, my friend, no offense! You need to wake up and smell the roses, figuratively speaking. And something I would like to point out is that divorce rates don't skyrocket because people get money. They skyrocket because people don't know how to love. They don't know how to deal with their money or their limited freedom. Mostly though, couples just argue with each other, don't understand each other, etc. Don't place everything on the economy or possesions. When you say things like this, it shows that you haven't done any research (not that I'm saying you haven't).

As you well know monogomy is not the only thing people are or should be capable of.There are many societies even today that practice things other then monogamy.

Yeah, like Gay marriage, Lesbian marriage, and other crap I don't have time for. I agree, there are small miorities that practice something else as you put it but they are just that ... small minorities.

Man must never have too much independence, Haykakan, because that's where the problems begin. A humans proper position is to serve, not be completely independent. Freedom comes from knowledge, not money or possesions alone. I suggest you research that because it will open new horizons and help you refine your previous research. Marriage isn't just something that was created for fun and this can be proven more then your theories can.

Again, no offense yekhpayr. We're just having an interesting conversation.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Traditional man and country

It also compared it to 911, but again i ask you what is your point?

My point is how inaccurate those human/child mortality rates are since they are never measured during times of war, famine, etc. They are ideal figures that paint a rosy picture of the world.

[Haykakan]

Re: Traditional man and country

Saco i understand your perspective and it is probably shared by many but you really do not disprove or even make valid arguments against the points i made.I also very much disagree with your conclusion that "man must never have too much independence".I very much believe that finding your true self and being who you really are is better then living in a unnatural state dictated by economics or religion or.... It would sure be hard to be your natural self in todays society and hardly anyone is but knowing what that state is,is like finding yourself.Understanding humans and humanity for what it really is has been a liberating experience in many ways it also makes you very hard to lose most arguments because you are not hiding behind some artificial wall like religion or economicly based norms.It is not easy to shed what your parents, society, church....have been pounding into your head about how you should be and i can hardly claim to have succeeded but if you can look at things objectively the whole world will look a lot clearer to you.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Traditional man and country

Saco i understand your perspective and it is probably shared by many but you really do not disprove or even make valid arguments against the points i made.I also very much disagree with your conclusion that "man must never have too much independence".I very much believe that finding your true self and being who you really are is better then living in a unnatural state dictated by economics or religion or.... It would sure be hard to be your natural self in todays society and hardly anyone is but knowing what that state is,is like finding yourself.Understanding humans and humanity for what it really is has been a liberating experience in many ways it also makes you very hard to lose most arguments because you are not hiding behind some artificial wall like religion or economicly based norms.It is not easy to shed what your parents, society, church....have been pounding into your head about how you should be and i can hardly claim to have succeeded but if you can look at things objectively the whole world will look a lot clearer to you.

You can't escape religion, you are bounded by laws.
You can't escape society, you are dependent on it.
You can't escape economy, its how you get shelter, food.

So what dictates "how you should be?"

How would your entirely liberal world function?

You can only make these claims because everything has already been done for you by previous generations.

You can disconnect yourself and live with mennonites, which is about as radical as it gets... however, I don't think they were affected by gas prices

[Haykakan]

Re: Traditional man and country

You can't escape religion, you are bounded by laws.
You can't escape society, you are dependent on it.
You can't escape economy, its how you get shelter, food.

So what dictates "how you should be?"

How would your entirely liberal world function?

You can only make these claims because everything has already been done for you by previous generations.

You can disconnect yourself and live with mennonites, which is about as radical as it gets... however, I don't think they were affected by gas prices

Thats much better KanadaHye. You actually made valid points and managed to do it without insults. You are right you cannot escape those things because they are so prevelant in our lives but you can be aware of them and their influence on you and those around you.By having this awareness you gain a tremendous edge over those who do not have it because by understanding things you can, to some extent, controll their influence on you and even others.You also gain a better understanding of why people think the way they do, in your own society or even in another.