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Odious Turkish agenda

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  • Odious Turkish agenda

    This speech was given on October 16th, 2009, in Sarajevo, by Ahmet Davutoglu. Ahmet Davutoglu was formerly foreign minister of Turkey and is currently chief advisor to Erdogan. It think the ideas he espouses are truly frightening for the Balkans, the Caucasus, and the Middle East.



    The distinguished characteristic of the Balkans is its geographic position in Afro-Euro-Asia, and its history links to this geography. Three characteristics of the Balkans can be identified. The first is, that the Balkan region is a buffer zone in a geopolitical sense. Usually it is seen as a buffer zone in transition from Europe to Asia, from Asia to Europe, from Baltic to Mediterranean, even to Africa, from North to South, from East to West it is a geopolitical buffer zone. I will explain what it means, why it is so important, and why this characteristic had any impact on the history of the Balkans.

    The second characteristic is the geo-economic characteristic. The Balkan region has been a region of transaction in geo-economic sense. From the time of Greek civilization, ancient times until today, the Balkan region has been a region of economic transaction, from sea to inside, to the land corridors of Eastern Europe, from East to West. It was and it is even today a transaction of geo-economics.

    The third characteristic is that the Balkan region is a geo-cultural interaction region. So, several cultures interacted in the Balkans. Waves of migrations, many peoples came and mixed each other. If you have a region with these three characteristics, a geo-political buffer zone, geo-cultural interaction and geo-economic transaction, you have two alternative destinies in history.

    One destiny is that you can be either the center of world politics, or you will have to be the victim of world competition which means that you will have to be a periphery of another power. Therefore, Balkan history is either success history or a story of failures and being victim of this competition. Today for example, when we speak of the Balkans, usually we think that the Balkan region is a periphery of Europe, not the center of Europe, but the periphery of Europe. Is it so? Is the Balkan region really a periphery? No. In fact, the Balkan region is one of the strategic centers of Afro-Euro-Asia. Why did it turn out this way? Why do we have such a perception of periphery? If you ask for example Mehmed-paša Sokolović he wouldn’t say that Sarajevo or Saloniki is a periphery of the Ottoman state or a periphery of Europe. He would think that this is right the center of everything, like the Nasrudin-hodža story. But it was true.

    Therefore, look at the history. The first big state, imperial state, which emerged from Balkan region was the Alexandrian Empire. It emerged from the Balkans although the center of the Alexandrian Empire was not the Balkans. There was no Alexandrian police in the Balkans. All the big cities of the Empire of Alexander were in Anatolia, in Egypt, in Iran, in Afghanistan. That Empire emerged from the Balkans, but the center of the Empire was not the Balkans. In Roman Empire, both, Eastern and Western Roman Empire, Balkan region was a periphery. Roman Emperors mentioned the Balkans only when they decided to have a military preparation to go to Asia. So, they didn’t see the Balkan region as the center. The only exception throughout history, a positive exception, is the Ottoman state. During the Ottoman state, the Balkan region became the center of world politics in the 16th century. This is the golden age of the Balkans. I am not saying this because we inherited Ottoman legacy, but this is a historical fact. Who run world politics in 16th century? - Your ancestors. They waren’t all Turks, some were Slavic origins, some were Albanian origins, some were even converted Greek origins, but they run the world politics. So, Mehmed-paša Sokolović is a good example. If there was no Ottoman state, Mehmed paša would be a poor Serbian man who lived just to have a small farm or whatever he had. At that time there was no developed farm in that part of the world. But, because of the Ottoman state he became the leader of world politics. Therefore, Ottoman history is a history of Balkan region, a history of the central character of Balkan region in world politics. All the main trade routes were in the Balkans at that time. Saloniki became the center of economic activities. Before, Saloniki was a small town. But during Ottoman times, Saloniki became one of the main centers of trade economy. All the Mediterranean trade went through Saloniki.

    If you follow the migrations of xxxs, you can understand the flaw of money. Why did Saloniki become the biggest xxxish community from 16th to 19th century, even in 19th century? Significant populations in Saloniki were xxxs. What were they doing there? They were monitoring and making all the trade from Saloniki to the North, to Euro-Asia. Mediterranean economics to Euro-Asia were administered through Saloniki and Istanbul. Similarly, Belgrade was like a village, or may be a town in 14th century. During the Ottoman state Belgrade became the central city, pivotal city of the Danube and of central Europe in the economic and cultural sense. There were hundreds of mosques and churches. Sarajevo is a miracle, like the miniature of this heritage. If you understand Sarajevo, you can understand all the Ottoman history. Because it is, according to the saying, if you understand a person you can understand that century. Like Hegel, if you understand Hegel you can understand the German mentality of the 19th century. It is the prototype of all that mentality. Similarly, Sarajevo is the prototype of the Ottoman civilization. Sarajevo has been the prototype of the rise of Balkans.

    Similarly, later in 19th century there was Mehmed Ali-paša. He is an Albanian, but he did not only become one of the leading figures of Ottoman state at that time, he is the founder of modern Egypt. If there had not been an Ottoman tradition, Egyptians would not have seen any Albanian in their life. And Mehmed Ali-paša would have been at most Mehmed Ali-bey living somewhere in the Balkans only as an intelligent person. So, leading figures are the prototypes of a civilization. What can we learn from this? The Balkan region has a destiny because of these geo-political, geo-cultural, geo-economic characteristics. Either the Balkan region will be the center of everything or it will be a victim of everything.

    Why was the Balkan region divided since the 19th century and from that time until now? Whenever we speak of the Balkan region, we speak of divisions, clashes, ethnic clashes, not civilization. Absence of geo-cultural interaction means cultural clash. Absence of geo-economic transaction means economic stagnation. Absence of political authority means becoming a buffer zone of all the conflicts. Now, it is time to reunite all these. Then we will rediscover the spirit of the Balkans.

    Which type of policy should be implemented in order to achieve this? First, in order to prevent a geopolitical buffer zone character of the Balkans, which makes the Balkans a victim of conflicts, we have to create a new sense of unity in our region, we have to strengthen the regional ownership and foster a regional common sense. If you look at the history, we are human beings and we are not living in paradise. Human beings are grey, like history, or history is grey like human beings. We are not angels and we are not animals. It is up to us to decide and to do something. Similarly, history is grey. It depends which part of history you are taking as a selection to interpret today. Balkan history is not only a history of conflicts. Throughout the centuries, from 15th to 19th century, Balkan history was a success story. We can reinvent this success. We can reestablish this success through creating an original ownership, through creating a new multicultural coexistence and through establishing a new economic zone. Multicultural coexistence is very important because the rise of a civilization can only be understood through analyzing the city structures and the cultural life in these cities. If a city is uniform it means that that civilization is not so diversified. It is just an invert looking closed to society, like before in the Roman Empire, the city of Rome was purely full of Romans. People living there was Romans. But later when the Roman Empire was established it became a cosmopolitan city. Similarly, as Istanbul and all other Balkan cities were multicultural. We lived together and because of that strong cultural richness, there was a rise of interaction. The backwardness is purification such as in the 1990s. Those who organized the massacres in Srebrenica, Eastern Bosnia, are barbaric people who did not want to tolerate cultural differences. The spirit of Sarajevo is the spirit of coexistence, the spirit of living together. How does Turkey look at the Balkans? We want to have a new Balkan region, based on political dialogue, economic interdependency and cooperation, integration and cultural harmony and tolerance.

    This was the Ottoman Balkan. We will reestablish this Balkan. People are calling me neo-Ottoman, therefore I don’t won’t to refer to the Ottoman state as a foreign policy issue. What I am underlying is the Ottoman legacy. The Ottoman centuries of the Balkans were success stories. Now we have to reinvent this. Why did I come to Bosnia for less then 24 hours? Because Bosnia is in a very critical transformational stage these days. I want to show solidarity with BiH. I want to show that we are here. We are with the Bosnians and we will continue to be with the Bosnians. Why is this transition so important? Because the territorial integrity and the political unity of BiH should be protected in order to have security in our region. If BiH is not secure and stable, we cannot have security and stability in the Balkans. The Turkish perspective towards this region is to reestablish a new Balkan region based on this understanding of political dialogue, solving the issues through political dialogue, intensifying the economic relations and cultural coexistence and harmony.

    In 1990s, we faced many difficulties in BiH, in Kosovo and in Macedonia. When those difficulties occurred where did the Bosniaks, Albanians, Turks, Macedonia and Kosovo, turn their face? To Turkey. It is a historical relation. Let me give you an example making the analogy from the beginning. This geo-political buffer zone character, geo-cultural interaction and geo-economic transaction, are the same characteristics of Iraq and Afghanistan. Why did we have problems in Yugoslavia, in BiH, in Iraq and in Afghanistan? Because all these three states were the mini models of their respective regions. BiH is a small Balkans. You have Muslims, Catholics, Orthodox respectively Bosniaks, Serbs, Croats living together as a miniature of the Balkans. Similarly, Iraq is a small Middle East: Arabs, Kurds, Turkmen, Shi’as and Sunnis. Afghanistan is a small subcontinent in Central Asia with Tajiks, Pashtuns and Hazaras. Therefore, these counties are critical countries. If you manage them properly, you can manage the region. If you cannot manage them properly, you will have a regional crisis. What is Turkey? Turkey is a small Balkan, a small Middle East, a small Caucasus. We have more Bosnians living in Turkey than in Bosnia, more Albanians living in Turkey than in Albania, more Chechens living in Turkey than in Chechnya, more Abkhazians living in Turkey than in Abkhazia, and we have Kurds, Arabs, Turks together. Why do we have all this? Because of the Ottoman legacy. For all these Muslim nationalities in these regions Turkey is a safe haven. The homeland, yes, most welcome, Anatolia belongs to you, our Bosnian brothers and sisters. And be sure that Sarajevo is ours. If you want to come, you come, but we want you to be safe and secure here as the owners of Sarajevo and BiH. Therefore, we have to take care. What happens in BiH is our responsibility. Today I heard one diplomat saying, I don’t want to give the name of the country, that in less of one weak, despite of all political issues, we intensified our efforts on BiH. When I met Hillary Clinton on the Armenian issue in Zürich, I raised the Bosnian issue and we discussed Bosnia more than Armenia.

    When president Haris Silajdžić came to Ankara last week, we had many activities. I changed my schedule. I decided to come to Sarajevo, and from here, I will go to Armenia. One western diplomat asked why are you suddenly parachuting this issue? Why are you involved in Bosnia like parachutes? I told our ambassador who brought this news to me: “Tell them we didn’t go to Bosnia with parachutes, we went by horse and stayed there with the Bosnians sharing the same destiny!” Yes, whatever happens in the Balkans, in Caucasus, in Middle East, it is our issue. One day I will be in Iraq, another day in Azerbaijan, another day in Bosnia, as minister of foreign affairs. Whatever happens, it is in our foreign policy agenda. Again with Secretary Clinton I made a joke. In June, when I sat in Ankara, I made a 1000 kilometers circle around my office. There are 23 countries. All of them are our relatives and they expect something from us. If we draw a 3000 kilometers circle, there are 72 countries, and every day in our Ministry news can come from any of these countries which will change our schedule. This is our historical debt. When I say strategic debt, I mean this historical debt.

  • #2
    Re: Odious Turkish agenda

    continued:

    In June, I went to north Afghanistan to Mazari-Sharif, Balkh, Jowzjan. We visited six cities, and usually western diplomats and ministers, they visit only Kabul or they meet at the airport and go back. Only Turkish ministers can visit six cities in Afghanistan without any difficulty. Because Afghanistan like Bosnia is our country. I don’t feel foreign in Afghanistan. In Mazari-Sharif, the governer of Baleh, sat next to me and said: “Oh minister, I need a school, hospital, park”. I called the TIKA coordinator and said: “Please take notes”. Our journalists were surprised saying: “He was requesting as if you are a minister of Afghanistan, or he is the governor of Konya.” Yes, he was so relaxed. He thinks that I have to do it. For him Turkey is great. A Turkish minister has a capacity without limit and he has to do it. It is his historic pardon. After two or three weeks, I went to Sandžak, Novi Pazar, with a delegation. There happened the same. The people of Sandžak and Rožaje, were saying, we need schools, a hospital and this and that. They were thinking that, yes, Turks are responsible to do all these things. Poor Turks, I don’t now what to do, but we have to do it. They are right. For them, Turkey means the center. For them Turkey is a place where they can go like a shelter. Turkish people are the people who have to find the solution. We cannot be weak from their perspective. Therefore, our foreign policy must be proactive as we say. We cannot ignore anything. You, for example, now, as a Bosnian and somebody from Dagestan in Russia, you are so away from each other. He is a Russian citizen or an Azeri in Caspian and Bosniak is in Bosnia. But in an apartment in Turkey, a Bosniak, an Azeri, an Albanian and Chechen live together. You may see that you are far away, but in Turkey, they are living in the same house because of this historical relation.

    Therefore, our foreign policy aims to establish order in all these surrounding regions, in the Balkans, Caucasus and the Middle East. Because if there is no order then we will pay the price. For a Western or another diplomat from another part of the world, a Bosnian issue is a technical issue to deal with, like a technical diplomatic process. For us, it is a life and death story. It is so important. The territorial integrity of BiH for us is as important as the territorial integrity of Turkey. The prosperity and security of Sarajevo is as important as security and prosperity in Istanbul. This is not only the feeling or the responsibility of a statesman. This is the feeling or the emotion of any individual Turk living anywhere in Turkey. And today, I was telling our leaders here as well, there were two big spontaneous demonstrations in Turkey. I know, one was in 1993, there was a broadcasting news at seven or eight o’clock that Serbians used chemical weapons in Goražde. In two hours, not thousands, hundred thousands of people gathered spontaneously. If they were asked to walk to Bosnia that night, they would not think of going home, they would start walking to Bosnia. This is how we are linked to each other. In short, our history is the same, our destiny is the same and our future is the same. Like in the 16th century, the rise of Ottoman Balkans as the center of world politics, we will make the Balkans, Caucasus and Middle East together with Turkey as the center of world politics in the future. This is the objective of Turkish foreign policy and we will achieve this. We will reintegrate the Balkan region, Middle East and Caucasus, based on this principle of regional and global peace for the future, not for all of us, but for all the humanity.

    Thank you very much for inviting me and Allahimanet.
    That's it, my friends. Turkey sees itself as the "organizing" force in the Balkans, Middle East, Caucasus, and even up into Central Asia. Their moves with respect to Armenia are part of a disgusting agenda to turn former Ottoman territories, or even areas that were never under Ottoman rule, into satellites of a cultural, economic, and perhaps even political empire centered in Ankara.

    These delusional people, who think the pinnacle of Balkan history lies with the Ottoman filth - as opposed to the ancient Greeks, Alexander's empire, the Romans, the Byzantines, or the medieval kingdoms prior to Ottoman occupation - are hellbent on rebuilding Turkish influences. Armenians: be wary!

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    • #3
      Re: Odious Turkish agenda

      Originally posted by Merv View Post
      continued:



      That's it, my friends. Turkey sees itself as the "organizing" force in the Balkans, Middle East, Caucasus, and even up into Central Asia. Their moves with respect to Armenia are part of a disgusting agenda to turn former Ottoman territories, or even areas that were never under Ottoman rule, into satellites of a cultural, economic, and perhaps even political empire centered in Ankara.

      These delusional people, who think the pinnacle of Balkan history lies with the Ottoman filth - as opposed to the ancient Greeks, Alexander's empire, the Romans, the Byzantines, or the medieval kingdoms prior to Ottoman occupation - are hellbent on rebuilding Turkish influences. Armenians: be wary!
      Well old hatreds die hard, no Balkan nation is really happy with the fact they were occupied and controlled by the Ottoman Empire (Turkey); the whole Balkan wars were to escape the crumbling, intolerant mess which was the Ottoman Empire.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Odious Turkish agenda

        I love Davutoğlu's passion! Unfortunately, the rest of the government does not share his vision or capacity, so his influence will be limited.
        I remember him once saying that for years, he studied the history and now, as the minister of foreign affairs, he has the chance to make his own contribution to it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Odious Turkish agenda

          Originally posted by seruven View Post
          I love Davutoğlu's passion! Unfortunately, the rest of the government does not share his vision or capacity, so his influence will be limited.
          I remember him once saying that for years, he studied the history and now, as the minister of foreign affairs, he has the chance to make his own contribution to it.
          My biggest issue with this guy is that he clearly doesn't know the history. What kind of idiot could be dismissive of pre-Ottoman Balkan history and then elevate the Ottoman period as a center of the world?

          He calls Thessaloniki a small town and Belgrade a village. What? Thessaloniki was the second most important city of the entire Byzantine empire, and extremely important city from the times of Alexander, continuously, through nearly 1500 years of Roman and Byzantine rule, until the Ottomans. It became a village, in the European picture, only when the Ottomans took it, kicked out the native Greeks, shipped in Spanish xxxs, and ruined it.

          Belgrade was a military fortress from 400 B.C. - founded by the Celts as Sigindun. It was Sigindunum to the Romans and continued to be a fortress - not a village - prior to and after Ottoman rule. Something like 20 Roman emperors were born in the Balkan region - important ones too, such as Constantine, Justinian, Diocletian, Galerius, etc. Davutoglu claims that Belgrade became a pivotal city in Central Europe in the cultural and economic sense once the Turks took it. First, Belgrade is in southeastern Europe. Second, it became nothing of the kind: it became a battleground between Turks and Austro-Hungarians for centuries and was wrecked over and over until it really did become a pile of rubble. It's cultural importance in European history in general, never very great, became essentially nil when the Turks took it.

          And how could anyone claim that the pre-Ottoman Balkans, the same Penninsula of Haemus that gave us the Athenian Greeks and the Macedonians of Alexander and the Eastern Roman empire was nothing in comparison to the Ottomans?

          Everything else Davutoglu says is quite natural. He's a Turkish nationalist. What is disturbing is how badly he knows history, or how intentionally he misunderstands history, to fit his insane agenda. Let's not kid ourselves: the Ottoman empire was the junkyard of Europe. They kept all those Christians living in a culturally fertile post-Roman/post-Byzantine territory in a state of medieval primitivism and slavery to Muslim rule for centuries while other Europeans were undergoing the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution. Same goes for what they did to Armenians and indeed Arabs.

          Perhaps the only "good" thing about the Turks is their assaults on Constantinople and eventual capture and cultural (and actual) rape of that city forced a lot of Greeks to flee to Italy, where they helped ignite the Renaissance. That's about it.
          Last edited by Merv; 11-05-2009, 03:07 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Odious Turkish agenda

            Yes, in many ways Armenia and other kingdoms in eastern Europe were quite advanced before the ottoman conquests, more so than the kingdoms of western Europe. The ottoman control took its toll and by the 18th century the western European kingdoms were head and shoulders above their ottoman counterparts in the east.
            For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
            to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



            http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Odious Turkish agenda

              Originally posted by Armanen View Post
              Yes, in many ways Armenia and other kingdoms in eastern Europe were quite advanced before the ottoman conquests, more so than the kingdoms of western Europe. The ottoman control took its toll and by the 18th century the western European kingdoms were head and shoulders above their ottoman counterparts in the east.
              Do I think Armenia and Eastern Europe were ahead of Western Europe prior to the Ottomans? Not exactly. I think the inversion occurred somewhere around 1100-1200. The Byzantine decline definitely did begin prior to the Ottoman invasion, even if we take into account Manzikert. The decisive blow was the 4th Crusade.

              But in 1300 or 1400 they were not so far behind Western Europe. Maybe slightly. But the Ottoman period practically turned them into pathetic, downtrodden, underdeveloped 3rd world countries. No real social development. No real industrialization. No strong artistic, literary, musical development. No science to speak of. These nations which would have naturally communicated with the West and in turn influenced it were cut off in an Ottoman prison which reduced them to enslaved peoples clinging out of stubbornness and desperation to their land, their language, and their religion.

              We've been playing catchup with the West for the past 150 years and we've done remarkably well but we're still quite a bit behind.

              The Ottoman empire was a nice vacation perhaps for Muslims, because they could afford to be lazy brutes while the Christians toiled and paid taxes in money and in blood (dersivme), but it was not a nice place for non-Muslims.

              What Davutoglu envisions recreating is therefore not only historically inaccurate, it should be seen as dangerous. He's not some random crackpot. He was the former foreign minister of Turkey and is currently influencing Erdogan.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Odious Turkish agenda

                Originally posted by Merv View Post
                He was the former foreign minister of Turkey and is currently influencing Erdogan.
                Actually the other way around. He was an adviser to Erdoğan and is currently the minister of foreign affairs.
                Btw, I don't think he doesn't know history. He is a professor of international relations and was always very successful. But now, he is a politician and it's naive to expect a politician to always tell the truth. Politicans have their political agendas and will always try to manipulate people accordingly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Odious Turkish agenda

                  Originally posted by seruven View Post
                  Actually the other way around. He was an adviser to Erdoğan and is currently the minister of foreign affairs.
                  Btw, I don't think he doesn't know history. He is a professor of international relations and was always very successful. But now, he is a politician and it's naive to expect a politician to always tell the truth. Politicans have their political agendas and will always try to manipulate people accordingly.
                  Either way it's bad. He's either ignorant or a blatant liar. Or both, actually.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Odious Turkish agenda

                    Originally posted by Merv View Post
                    Do I think Armenia and Eastern Europe were ahead of Western Europe prior to the Ottomans? Not exactly. I think the inversion occurred somewhere around 1100-1200. The Byzantine decline definitely did begin prior to the Ottoman invasion, even if we take into account Manzikert. The decisive blow was the 4th Crusade.

                    But in 1300 or 1400 they were not so far behind Western Europe. Maybe slightly. But the Ottoman period practically turned them into pathetic, downtrodden, underdeveloped 3rd world countries. No real social development. No real industrialization. No strong artistic, literary, musical development. No science to speak of. These nations which would have naturally communicated with the West and in turn influenced it were cut off in an Ottoman prison which reduced them to enslaved peoples clinging out of stubbornness and desperation to their land, their language, and their religion.

                    We've been playing catchup with the West for the past 150 years and we've done remarkably well but we're still quite a bit behind.

                    The Ottoman empire was a nice vacation perhaps for Muslims, because they could afford to be lazy brutes while the Christians toiled and paid taxes in money and in blood (dersivme), but it was not a nice place for non-Muslims.

                    What Davutoglu envisions recreating is therefore not only historically inaccurate, it should be seen as dangerous. He's not some random crackpot. He was the former foreign minister of Turkey and is currently influencing Erdogan.

                    Prior to the ottoman invasion and conquest the kingdoms of eastern Europe were more advanced than those in the west. It is no coincidence that the Renaissance had its roots in the contact which Italian learned men had with the East, such as when Aurispa brought back a few hundred ancient manuscripts from Constantinople. Also the gothic style of architecture originated in Armenia. There is more, I'm sure someone with more historical knowledge than I could provide to illustrate my point.
                    For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                    to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                    http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                    Comment

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