notes and comments

[meline]

Re: elegy

I think I prefer reading Saco's counterarguments They are much better

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

I don't understand you.
I don't hate you.
I'm trying to understand you.
Your not trying to understand me)(or anyone else.

I understand Ara. I just don't understand if he's asking and answering his own questions or he's writing for a column in a paper.

[Anoush]

Re: elegy

I understand Ara, though some of his thoughts I agree with and some other of his thoughts I vehemently disagree with. For instance I agree when he talks about Armenian minds, the hatred and the jealousy most carry within them for their own kind; it's all true quite unfortunately and I wish it was differently but it isn't. We as a nation have great regards towards all "odars" (non-Armenians), but when it comes to our own kinds we have not. I don't know why or what is the answer but it's all true. Perhaps it's because as a nation we have less self esteem towards our own kind as we have lived subserviently under the Ottoman turks for a great many centuries and we did not have the luxury of having our own kingdom, our freedom and sovereignty. I would think that this may have something to do with having less self esteem and less regard for our own kind as a national trait. Though after losing our kingdom, our freedom and our lands, it wasn't easy for our nation psychologically to thrive and feel content and better. You see, maintaining to have our lands, kingdom, freedom would have made us feel not haughty or arrogant but excellent, superior and distinguished. Not having a land and sovereignty robbed us of those feelings of distinguished superiority; and now our race is paying the dear price of all this. Although even before losing our kingdom and sovereignty, our princes were not loyal to one king. Everyone wished to be king; thus no one wishes to follow rules and be soldiers. I am afraid it's a national weakness and feebleness.

On the other hand, I don't agree with Ara when he attacks all parties in the immediate past, because we were annihilated by the turks. I don't agree with Ara when he attacks Dashnagtsoutyun as they were fooled for a very short while by Talaat and his gang, after a great many of our people were annihilated by the Red Sultan Abdul Hamid II. Although after the Adana massacres, Dashnagtsoutyun didn't trust the turkish gov't nor Talaat. I don't agree with Ara when he favours all turks and calls them all his friends and brothers when till today their government and a great many turks still denies the Genocide and therefore the Genocide continues, as it is the last phase of the Genocide is denyal. Of course I am not speaking about the turks who have signed petitions to accept the Genocide and are not denying it. I understand it must be hard for them to accept it as a nation and move on with their hurtful past; but then again the Germans did it and so did the Americans. How can we say all the turks; including their government who notoriously denies the Genocide is our buddies, friends and brothers. I have great regard for the turks who do not deny the Genocide but the ones who deny it, I have contempt towards them.

I just wish that before the Genocide, Armenians weren't scattered all over Western Armenia. If the 3 or plus millions of them lived only in the Van area or around Erzeroum for instance, Dashnagtsoutyun and Henchagyans would have better chance to save most of them; but that didn't happen as we were scattered all over the Armenian Highlands.

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

If the Armenians from Van, Mush, Sassun, and Erzerum fought against the Turks together, instead of just fending for themselves whenever the Turks felt like isolating each region with their swords, then we would've functioned more as an oppressed nation under the Ottoman yoke. To say we were disorganized because we were scattered is a cop out, we chose to act scattered when we didn't have to, and to our detriment. Antranik hated this aspect about Armenians... "not my region? I'll give my sympathies, but I would never give my life to protect it". Surely, Caucasian Armenians were the same, they needed to wait until the Tatar Azeris began the pogroms before they understood Antranik's message to them, and by then, it was way to late to do anything for Western Armenia. It is unfortunate that we needed to all get our fair share of butchering before our survivors started to see that we needed to work together.

We were not a warrior people, this was (and still might be) our greatest curse. The fedayeen were exceptions to the rule that Armenians were the most loyal cattle of the Ottomans. It is no surprise that when the massacring started, our diverse regions could not find the will to band together and become a force that could avert the deaths of over a million people. We woke up too late to realize that we must be armed and coordinated in order to survive there.

[Eddo211]

Re: elegy

Amazingly true post Anoush jan, and you sum it up well…………..the reason why now I hunt our enemies on the internet like a ghost from the past.

Ara, she is right you know………and so is Saco. Your posts can sometimes cause confusion with misleading interpretation.

Jqk3, I agree. Good analysis.
We look to future now and we shall succeed.

[Sako]

Re: elegy

That's mainly because the truth hurts.

No, it's because they said it in the wrong way. Let's look at some people talking about the AG, shall we? The way they talk at times makes you feel like their sticking our history in people's eyes ... more like poking actually ... and it feels very disgusting. You feel like walking out of the room and slamming the door closed on your way out. What they don't understand is that soon they'll poke everyone's eyes out and no one will be able to see the truth anymore. There is a way to do everything. I have also been promoting the AG but whenever I did in Armenia, India, etc. people listened, people got excited, and they respected me most importantly because I respected THEM along with their views, wrong or right! Don't mean to brag bro. I hope you understood me correctly.

Bottom line is, neglection is a very bad feeling and when people read a thread or blog or whatever that apparently faces serious issues and then get ignored along with most of their questions, if not all of them ... they get pissed and it doesn't matter anymore if the thread was filled with good, informative posts or sucky posts ... nothing matters anymore. Neglection is what I and many others feel, have felt, and will probably continue to feel in this thread and because I sensed that Ara had a lot of good things to say, I wanted to inform him about what's going on so that not only others, but I myself could start understanding him and perhaps having some quality discussions. What did I get? A message saying, "It seems to me in whatever you say you give one the impression that you know better"!

I think I prefer reading Saco's counterarguments. They are much better.

Lol, thanks Meline jan. But seriously, this isn't a my horse is bigger then your horse contest. This is just about all of us starting to understand each other and why many can't!

I understand Ara. I just don't understand if he's asking and answering his own questions or he's writing for a column in a paper.

It looks more like a diary with many personal entries. That's what I asked, whether this is a column, a diary, or a thread where people can discuss what he writes. That answer like many others is also unanswered. It kinda feels like Riddle's diary .... oh wait, that diary actually talked back to you.

On the other hand, I don't agree with Ara when he attacks all parties in the immediate past, because we were annihilated by the turks. I don't agree with Ara when he attacks Dashnagtsoutyun as they were fooled for a very short while by Talaat and his gang, after a great many of our people were annihilated by the Red Sultan Abdul Hamid II. Although after the Adana massacres, Dashnagtsoutyun didn't trust the turkish gov't nor Talaat. I don't agree with Ara when he favours all turks and calls them all his friends and brothers when till today their government and a great many turks still denies the Genocide and therefore the Genocide continues, as it is the last phase of the Genocide is denyal. Of course I am not speaking about the turks who have signed petitions to accept the Genocide and are not denying it. I understand it must be hard for them to accept it as a nation and move on with their hurtful past; but then again the Germans did it and so did the Americans. How can we say all the turks; including their government who notoriously denies the Genocide is our buddies, friends and brothers. I have great regard for the turks who do not deny the Genocide but the ones who deny it, I have contempt towards them.

I agree. To quote Socrat (I think it was him) ... "Whoever says everyone is his friend isn't MY friend"! I have so many Turkish friends I would take a bullet for but that doesn't mean everyone in Turkey is my friend. Again though, I THINK Ara had something else in mind. I guess we'll never know ...

[Sako]

Re: elegy

Regarding J's post ... I have personally experienced all that xxxx and am still experiencing it today believe it or not while working on Candles and Ashes. Many just want to see the site up and then shower me with beautiful words. Few actually stand by my side though and want to help actually create the site.

I see the same here in Yerevan. Many people get together and decide to do something but when the time comes to take the first step ... everyone's leg's hurt!

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

Regarding J's post ... I have personally experienced all that xxxx and am still experiencing it today believe it or not while working on Candles and Ashes. Many just want to see the site up and then shower me with beautiful words. Few actually stand by my side though and want to help actually create the site.

I see the same here in Yerevan. Many people get together and decide to do something but when the time comes to take the first step ... everyone's leg's hurt!

Its like a "group" project in school. 1 person usually ends up doing 90% of the work. Nobody takes the first step, the majority just take a step back defaulting their responsibilties to those that don't back out.

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Thursday, June 24, 2009
*****************************************
MEMOIRS
************************************************** ****
Because I was born in Greece to Armenian parents in a multicultural ghetto of refugees from the Ottoman Empire whose common medium was Turkish, I learned three languages without any effort on my part. I never asked anyone about the meaning of words or their definitions: I just knew. Something similar happens in the realm of ideas dealing with religion, ethics, and justice. I accepted them as facts rather than as prejudices, misconceptions, assumptions, fallacies, theories, or hypotheses. As a result, ideas that I encountered later in life – ideas like atheism, agnosticism, the brotherhood of all men, democracy, and passive resistance – appeared at first as alien, sometimes even as incomprehensible. Which is why intolerance comes naturally to all of us. It is tolerance that must be taught and learned, and more often than not, it is neither taught nor learned.
*
In my twenties I tried to teach myself Japanese and Zulu, among other languages. Today I remember only one word in Zulu -- “kitab” (book), and I remember it because it is the same word in Turkish.
*
And now allow me to tell you my favorite Nasreddin Hodja story:
It is said that in his youth the Hodja made a fortune as a smuggler. Everyone knew this but but no one knew what was it that he was smuggling, not even the border guards who would search him and his donkey thoroughly every time he crossed the border, which he did frequently. Many years later when one of the border guards met the Hodja and asked him what was was it that he was smuggling, the Hodja replied, “Donkeys.”
*
Speaking of smugglers: When an American customs officer asked Oscar Wilde if he had anything to declare, Wilde is said to have replied: “Only my genius” -- no doubt one of the most dangerous commodities known to man.
#

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

i do hope today's entry (MEMOIRS)
will explain why some readers
find my notes and comments alien, hostile, and
sometimes even incomprehensible.
but if they continue not to understand me,
i say, relax.
this is not the end of the world.
my next commentary may shed more light in a dark corner.
i have been writing for over 30 years --
my first book appeared in 1975.
and i have been writing one or two commentaries every day
for more than 10 years now.
it took me more than 10 or even 30 years to understand what i understand.
be patient.
there is no rush.
better late than never.
oush lini anous lini.
as long as there is life
there is hope.
sometimes i don't reply to questions
because i am inspired by them
and i do not wish to repeat the same answer.