notes and comments

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Many people who grew up in America are brainwashed into thinking Isreal is the good side and the palastinians are the murderers by the media which is totally controlled by zionists. The fact is quite the opposite in reality. Ara may simply be one of the victims of zionist propoganda and in fairness to him it is not his fault he has been mislead like most others.

palestinians and armenians share one important factor in common:
they are double victims:
(1) of foreign aggression, and
(2) of their corrupt and incompetent leadership.
to say otherwise is to engage in a sport that is popular to all losers: the blame-game.

[Haykakan]

Re: elegy

if they cannot contend, what's the use of contending?

Well that part is easy to understand. These people have no future there and cannot leave either so they are stuck in a winless situation and rebel out of frustration even when they know nothing will come of it (it is human nature). Some decide well hell if my life is going to be like this then i would rather die and take a few of the ones who make my life hell with me (again makes sence). When in a hopeless situation for a long time it is in human nature to rebel even when you know you wont win.

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

For someone who always wanted to raise children, for someone who always wanted a sexual mate, for someone who was curious and wanted to study, for someone who wanted to save their money... for all those people who would've been as happy as us if they were allowed to pursue these things, but instead were denied of the opportunity by a very overt foe...

...suddenly the more socially repressed desire of seeking and carrying out vengeance becomes more clear.

Even if vengeance doesn't lead to happiness, in a world where one feels trapped, victimized and unhappy anyway, a person (no different from you and I) might say, "I have nothing to lose anyway, they hurt me all the time, let me try to hurt them now."

If this person has an inherent desire for honour (to feel like he is serving the ideals of his social group), he might reinterpret this course of violence as serving this end.

And finally, if one has an inherent desire for power (to feel competent in one's skills, to manipulate others and impose one's own will on the world), his very society starts to become a gold mine, a ripe orchard of men who have nothing to lose, want a change, want to find a higher purpose or goal. And they will serve him so long as he carries out half his promises to them. And he will be very happy.

[Haykakan]

Re: elegy

palestinians and armenians share one important factor in common:
they are double victims:
(1) of foreign aggression, and
(2) of their corrupt and incompetent leadership.
to say otherwise is to engage in a sport that is popular to all losers: the blame-game.

Well it's not the same situation though. Palastinians have no hope or future, their situation is very different and far worst then our own. Neither countries leadership is incompetent but they are influenced by greater powers, the big difference is that the palastinian leaders are influenced by their enemy-isreal while armenias leaders are influenced by their caretaker-ally russia. You can easily observe this difference by observing lets say the living standards in both countries. The living standard in armenia has been steadily improving for the citizens of armenia after the ceasefire while it has been going down hill for the palastinians. Isreals goal is to completely destroy the palastinian population and take whatever is left of their lands while russias goal is to build a strong wedgevs panturckism and a strong sphere of influence in the region through its ally. Armenia benefits from its leaders abiding by russias will while the palastinians are getting destroyed by their leaders abiding by isreals will. I feel i have explained myself adequetly here and i don't think you can say i am playing the blame game.

[londontsi]

Re: elegy

When it comes to the Palestine... There is definitely a persecutor there (we know who it is). However is there an 'innocent' victim..? I do not think so.

Now I understand Turkish logic (and justice).

When the victim dies without a fight then its an innocent victim.

When the victim decides to defend / fight back then stops being an innocent victim.

Of coarse this would be a subject to a historic commission who will decide whether the victim was equally guilty in the whole affair.

I think I heard this somewhere else.

[jgk3]

Re: elegy

Now I understand Turkish logic (and justice).

When the victim dies without a fight then its an innocent victim.

When the victim decides to defend / fight back then stops being an innocent victim.

Haha, good comment.

[Army]

Re: elegy

Now I understand Turkish logic (and justice).

When the victim dies without a fight then its an innocent victim.

When the victim decides to defend / fight back then stops being an innocent victim.

Of coarse this would be a subject to a historic commission who will decide whether the victim was equally guilty in the whole affair.

I think I heard this somewhere else.

My thoughts are not related to Turkish view on something.

Before 'defending' their lands, Palestine people SOLD those lands by politically and economically. They invited British there, they sold their lands to J'ews and when J'ews were fighting for freedom against UK; Palestinians sided with UK..

They did strategic mistakes; and for what purpose? Just to 'earn' more. And now, HAMAS and PLO fighting eachother.. LOL. Which part of it 'innocent' ?

[londontsi]

Re: elegy

Before 'defending' their lands, Palestine people SOLD those lands by politically and economically. They invited British there, they sold their lands to J'ews and when J'ews were fighting for freedom against UK; Palestinians sided with UK..

They did strategic mistakes; and for what purpose? Just to 'earn' more. And now, HAMAS and PLO fighting eachother.. LOL. Which part of it 'innocent' ?

Cannot confirm: Palestinians SOLD their land.

What I do know: when you buy land in a country you cannot claim sovereignty on that land, since you said J'ews were fighting for freedom.

I am pretty sure they couldn't have bought the West Bank since it was in the jurisdiction of Jordan.

The fighting between HAMAS and PLO has the "support" of Israel for obvious reasons.

PLO very corrupt organization now.

They even sold cement to the Israelis to build the new wall.
This high quality cement was supplied to them by Egypt at a heavy discount to rebuild their country, but was sold to Israel for a profit by PLO corrupt officials and nobody noticed, disgusting.

[Army]

Re: elegy

Yes, disgusting indeed. Once a Jerusalem-expert journalist said to me that high ranked PLO members could do anything for money.

Corruption, thats a good sum of the issue.

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Monday, October 5, 2009
*****************************************
ARMENIAN TYPES
***********************************************
The white-haired elder statesman,
the mi-kich-pogh Panchoonie,
the apres-moi-le-deluge and
what's-in-it-for-me wheeler-dealer,
the loud-mouth charlatan,
the inbred moron who has assessed himself as a genius,
the phony pundit whose wisdom
is a figment of his imagination,
sometimes even recycled enemy propaganda
(remember our chic Bolsheviks),
the brown-noser,
and the grub-first-then ethics speechifier.
If I speak with some authority on all these types
it's because at one time or another I have been all of them --
all except the white-haired elder statesman --
my hair is black with only a shake of salt in them.
*
You begin to acquire a moral compass on the day you feel guilty about acts you committed without a single trace of remorse.
*
If some very smart men profess very stupid belief systems, it may be because the aim of belief systems is not to make sense but to satisfy a need, like hunger. The rest is propaganda.
*
God is one, but the lies spoken in His name are without number.
*
To simplify matters for the simple-minded, let us say there are kinds of people: (one) the brainwashed, and (two) those whose ambition it is to be a human being.
*
Most Greeks and Turks (probably the overwhelming majority) are neither Greeks nor Turks, only citizens of Greece and Turkey. As for my fellow Armenians, I will speak only for myself: On a clear day I can trace my ancestry all the way back to my father.
*
History seems to suggest that the most effective way to combat a Big Lie is with bigger lies.
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